So using the technique of positive mental imagery, what happens when we get all the land back? Pretend we get title to every square inch of land in the Hawaiian Islands, and all title is reverted to the kanaka maoli.
Do we split it up to give homesteads for every native Hawaiian?
Do we just charge rent to the people currently living on the land we've gotten restored?
How do we adjudicate claims between kanaka maoli? Do we rezone according to the ahupuaa system again?
I guess I keep wondering about this stolen land, because it's not clear who gets it back when it's returned. I know it would be nice to own a piece of property that I can pass onto my children and children's children - but what happens if they sell it to haoles like it happened in the Great Mahele? What can we do to stop that, without taking away the rights of property ownership?
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The Lili’uokalani Stimulus Package (LiliPack) is showing great success !!
“Pearl Harbor is behind us. I have doubts about the future of the Hawaiian Islands. But we almost had to pull out of Pearl because of the deteriorating economic conditions. In a year there will not be a single U.S. military base in the Islands.”
The personality of Our new King will "unify" Hawaiians as nothing else will. This is the very nature of a monarchy or kingdom. We have a Palace and a Throne. Palaces are NOT occupied by some "Trustee" or some "board". Monarchies are not governed by the Genealogy but by a person. What will it take for a young man to take the Throne at 'Iolani Palace ?? There is now such a young man amongst us. A young man with a destiny. Look for a young man who can master dangerous risks. This young man will NOT be found in one of David Keanu Sai's courtrooms. A judge will NOT order this young man into 'Iolani Palace.
An old man will NOT be ambitious enough to run the risks. Who among you would walk in Lili'uokalani's shoes ? Someone must. No wonder at all that Hawaiians seem lost. There is a cure for that. It's just a puzzle with a missing piece. Look for a young man that you can see holding a whole world of blackbirding pirates at bay. People will remember His deeds, not His genealogy. His subjects will remember how he sent the OHA "Trustees" running for cover. His subjects will remember how He got His subjects off the beaches. His subjects will enjoy seeing His kids playing on the Palace lawns. Who or what is standing in the way of Hawaiians finding Their King ? Naturally the blackbirding pirates can suggest a thousand other things for Hawaiians to do.
Try wait and see what Our King thinks. I for one will get down on my knees as His humble subject.
The great Mahele was a land division. All lands had rights of native tenants; The chiefs had their portion and the King had his portion of which he gave a sizeable amount to government; and a portion was for the monarch and his successors in perpetuity; and another portion for he and his heirs. All these lands were subject to the rights of native tenants who resided and worked off the land. This had nothing to do with God; it had to do with the king and the Bill of Rights he initiated in 1839 and the constitution of 1840/1852. Foreigners could lease available lands in fee. Remember also back in 1890, 15.6% of the Hawaii nationals were non-kanaka maoli and we need to protect them as well. So reverting back to the original land reform; we also need to take care of them as well as we establish a new land reform system to meet our needs in this century. Today, not many of us are farmers which was the initial purpose to secure those lands. Those lands were given for production of crops bacause the king felt the mahi'ai was the backbone of the country; so the land was proportioned according to how much that person could handle in farming. Usually if the land remained idle; that person lost the amount of land that lay fallow. Some natives felt uncomfortable in land ownership and gave it back to the konohiki; but worked and llived on the land. Others, the court left it until such time the native tenant or the chief chose to partition the land. It makes sense thatt those that have Royal Patent lands keep it and others that had kuleana lands retain them. The rest should be given to the Kingdom to partition according to the needs of the person. The arable lands are the lands intended for the native tenant by right. But why squabble about it now? If you have the deed, then good. If you don't; you will appeal to the Kingdom's government when it's restored. There's nothing one can do about it now unless you have a deed, especially with clear title to it. Back in my youth, we had family hui and some sold their share for a dollar and love. Remember fair exchange for land was in gold or silver and not a credit card or U.S. currency. Lots to think about, eh?
I BELIEVE THE MAHELE ROYAL PATENTS WAS FOR ONLU US AND THE OYAL FAMILIES AND TO THE PEOPLE WHO IT RIGHTFULLY BELONGS TOO , TO INVIOLATE THE LAND ORDO MONOPOLY WITH IT IS VERY WRONG, THESE LANDS SHOULD BESHARED AMONG PUR ROYAL FAMILY THAT GOD GAVE TOO, WHICH IS OUR JOSHUAS FAMILY WE ARE OTHE BIBLE AND THE ONES WHO AE IN VOLVED WITH THE MAHELE AND LANDS ITSHALL NOT BE GIVEN TO NO ONE UNLESS GOD PERMITS THAT FAMLY TO HAVE IT, IN E DHHL CASE WE SHOULD HAVEONLY THE FAMILY WHO NEEDS IT THEMOST IS THE ONE WHO SHALL HAVE DHHL AND ALSO FOR THEIR KOUNAS AND CHILDRENS TO WHOM THEY WANT TO SHARE THERE LANDS WITH IS THERE OWN KULEANATO TAKE THE MAHELE PATENTS AND TO SELL I IS A NO NO THAT IS GODSPATENTS AND THE REAL ROYAL FAMILIES AND THEIR FAMILIES PATENTS AND NOT O BE SHARED WITH NO ONE IT WAS KEPT FOR US, AN THE ROYAL MORNARCHY FAMILY.
I strongly believe that every Hawaiian has a lawful claim to a "Homestead" land base. A Homestead land base that can only be passed on to their Ohana. No selling outside of their Ohana. It won't be an easy task, but it can be done and has to be done for the perpetuation of our people. The mistakes of the Great Mahele in the past should be a lession learned. Keep Hawaiian Lands in Hawaiian Ohana. Long Live The Hawaiian Kingdom.
If independence were ever achieved, i think it would be the responsibility of the succeeding/restored government to act as stewards of the land. I doubt that much land would be divided out to individuals as that would be largely impractical. If anything would be given to Hawaiians to actually use on an individual basis, then I think we would see a division system somewhat similar to the Mahele but with restrictions on the buying and selling of land to foreigners (as Momi suggests) to preserve sovereignty. However, even that I think is kind of unlikely, because non-Hawaiian residents of Hawaii (who are now the majority) would definitely object. I think that if Hawaii did ever achieve a restoration of its independence, not much as far as land holdings would change, just because that would be the easier thing for the new government to do. I'm not saying thats the action I would support, just what I think would happen.
What I would support is this. When the lands all transfer to "Hawaiian hands", finish getting people on the old DHHL list on lands, then maybe with whatever lands are left, expand the scope of what used to be DHHL to allow all Hawaiians to claim land. You see what I mean? It would get the people on the land without having to do massive rezoning since DHHL lands are already set for that purpose and I think a "new" nation would want to do things as smoothly as possible. And then Hawaiians would all have at least some land on which to live, which would be nice.
I don't think acquiring some of the lands to the rightfull owners is out of the question. Some people do still hold royal patent and our ability to get it recognized is the threshold that needs to be addressed. No one holds "clear title" to the land except the people who hold the palapala sila whether it has been sold her not, I believe it is still valid, (recognized is another thing). Even when I got my own deed to my property, the doc is titled (warranty deed) that doesn't indicate that I have clear title. The whole OHA case for settling the ceded lands deal (trying to steal and sell our birthrights) but they could never do it. When you think of it, OHA doesn't even have clear title to the properties or use of it. I understand that alot of the palapala sila have probably been destroyed but some people still hold theirs and I have hope that they will know how to manage the lands once it is returned to it's rightful konohiki. I think it is all quite exciting.
I heard KSBE is using their Hawaiian registry to quiet title kuleana lands...I think they should be questioned on the matter. OHA wants to do with Kau inoa what KSBE has been doing to Hawaiians as long as they had that registry and people's genealogical information. That is part of the stealing.They use the genealogy and look in the paper for lands that taxes are owed on and they use the genealogies of these people to quiet title the land. I think that is very "itchy" of them. Currently, I see Bishop Estate kicking the Hawaiians off of the lands cause they can get more rent money from the haole. I have just been thinking about all the things Bishop Estate and KSBE have been doing to our people (including making our kids take a test to qualify to attend "their" school and quiet title- ing property and all the other stuffs they did and do and I just think we need to know some things about the way the so called trust is being run supposedly for "the betterment of indigent children of Hawaii" but I don't see them allowing struggling Hawaiian families to live on their so called lands (theirs cause they continue to steal it through "quiet title") This is hewa. I would like to see Bishop Estate take a step forward to really help our people and get them off of the homelessness and let them live on the property. I'm sure they will throw "liability" into their case because they live in a haole world. :) K, I vented for the morning....lol!
What I see as being equitable is that the lands reverse back to the original owners in allodial; they then become the landlords in lieu of government. Instead of paying land taxesand lease to government, it is paid to landowners who have allodial titles. Government lands remain with Kingdom's government. Those that haven't partitioned their land from the Konohiki since the mahele, should have the courts partition those lands for them. Na Hui 'ohana should be re-established to manage the original lands. The Kingdom government then can open up some of the government lands and sell it in fee or lease to other Hawaii nationals or those that want a different area to live, then government would be the landlord and charge taxes on those properties. Historic law was that no land could be sold in allodial to foreigners. Only kanaka maoli had allodial rights. Lands cannot be used as collateral; only the income produced by it. Government should program an agency to assign lands to kanaka maoli that are homeless to work out a system for them to bid for amount of property for allodial on state property as determined by government.
This is just one of suggestions to resolve the land issues; knowing that some properties will have multicomplexes with infrastructures and other that don't. I'm sure others will come up with better ideas; but this is a start to mull around what can be done in restoration that is equitable for all. How would you do it?
Thanks for explaining to me the alloidial title rights kanaka maoli have. When I went to W. Samoa, no outsider could own land. I thought that was how it should have been in Hawai`i. It is quite refreshing to learn about our alloidial rights and suggesting a government agency to assign them to the rightful heirs (kanaka maoli) what a good thought. Mahalo.
Excellent discussion. There are many different individuals and groups with many different beliefs. In my eyes the divisions that are found in the pursuit of sovereignty are the main obstacles to sovereignty. If all the people could stand as one, there could be no contest.
When I say all the people I mean Kanaka and Kamaaina alike. I have no KoKo. But I belong to this land. Kamaaina. We had rights under the old laws also. I have been tested many a times for this stance. All in all it has been rewarding. I am Hanai by four familys, and I know my home.
Anyway I am straying from the subject.
In my mana`o it is better to keep the lands in leases and patents. The royal patents were transferable to the next generation. Anyone who thinks they own the land anyway is fooling themselves. The land owns us. Ahupuaa system under mokus seems good also. Of course this is all stuff that the Kapunas need to figure out, but hopefully they listen to the Makua.
Finally I need to go back to my observation about the division I see. In my mind there is no chance for sovereignty unless we stand together, under the authority of the Chiefs. This means kanaka and kamaaina recognizing the Kanakas that have the authority. It will be hard for many, but the reward, well the aina would bless us.
Replies
The Lili’uokalani Stimulus Package (LiliPack) is showing great success !!
“Pearl Harbor is behind us. I have doubts about the future of the Hawaiian Islands. But we almost had to pull out of Pearl because of the deteriorating economic conditions. In a year there will not be a single U.S. military base in the Islands.”Cart before the horse ??
The personality of Our new King will "unify" Hawaiians as nothing else will. This is the very nature of a monarchy or kingdom. We have a Palace and a Throne. Palaces are NOT occupied by some "Trustee" or some "board". Monarchies are not governed by the Genealogy but by a person. What will it take for a young man to take the Throne at 'Iolani Palace ?? There is now such a young man amongst us. A young man with a destiny. Look for a young man who can master dangerous risks. This young man will NOT be found in one of David Keanu Sai's courtrooms. A judge will NOT order this young man into 'Iolani Palace.
An old man will NOT be ambitious enough to run the risks. Who among you would walk in Lili'uokalani's shoes ? Someone must. No wonder at all that Hawaiians seem lost. There is a cure for that. It's just a puzzle with a missing piece. Look for a young man that you can see holding a whole world of blackbirding pirates at bay. People will remember His deeds, not His genealogy. His subjects will remember how he sent the OHA "Trustees" running for cover. His subjects will remember how He got His subjects off the beaches. His subjects will enjoy seeing His kids playing on the Palace lawns. Who or what is standing in the way of Hawaiians finding Their King ? Naturally the blackbirding pirates can suggest a thousand other things for Hawaiians to do.
Try wait and see what Our King thinks. I for one will get down on my knees as His humble subject.
What I would support is this. When the lands all transfer to "Hawaiian hands", finish getting people on the old DHHL list on lands, then maybe with whatever lands are left, expand the scope of what used to be DHHL to allow all Hawaiians to claim land. You see what I mean? It would get the people on the land without having to do massive rezoning since DHHL lands are already set for that purpose and I think a "new" nation would want to do things as smoothly as possible. And then Hawaiians would all have at least some land on which to live, which would be nice.
I heard KSBE is using their Hawaiian registry to quiet title kuleana lands...I think they should be questioned on the matter. OHA wants to do with Kau inoa what KSBE has been doing to Hawaiians as long as they had that registry and people's genealogical information. That is part of the stealing.They use the genealogy and look in the paper for lands that taxes are owed on and they use the genealogies of these people to quiet title the land. I think that is very "itchy" of them. Currently, I see Bishop Estate kicking the Hawaiians off of the lands cause they can get more rent money from the haole. I have just been thinking about all the things Bishop Estate and KSBE have been doing to our people (including making our kids take a test to qualify to attend "their" school and quiet title- ing property and all the other stuffs they did and do and I just think we need to know some things about the way the so called trust is being run supposedly for "the betterment of indigent children of Hawaii" but I don't see them allowing struggling Hawaiian families to live on their so called lands (theirs cause they continue to steal it through "quiet title") This is hewa. I would like to see Bishop Estate take a step forward to really help our people and get them off of the homelessness and let them live on the property. I'm sure they will throw "liability" into their case because they live in a haole world. :) K, I vented for the morning....lol!
This is just one of suggestions to resolve the land issues; knowing that some properties will have multicomplexes with infrastructures and other that don't. I'm sure others will come up with better ideas; but this is a start to mull around what can be done in restoration that is equitable for all. How would you do it?
When I say all the people I mean Kanaka and Kamaaina alike. I have no KoKo. But I belong to this land. Kamaaina. We had rights under the old laws also. I have been tested many a times for this stance. All in all it has been rewarding. I am Hanai by four familys, and I know my home.
Anyway I am straying from the subject.
In my mana`o it is better to keep the lands in leases and patents. The royal patents were transferable to the next generation. Anyone who thinks they own the land anyway is fooling themselves. The land owns us. Ahupuaa system under mokus seems good also. Of course this is all stuff that the Kapunas need to figure out, but hopefully they listen to the Makua.
Finally I need to go back to my observation about the division I see. In my mind there is no chance for sovereignty unless we stand together, under the authority of the Chiefs. This means kanaka and kamaaina recognizing the Kanakas that have the authority. It will be hard for many, but the reward, well the aina would bless us.
Aloha Kakou
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