Posted by Kaapuikinaea on April 16, 2009 at 5:39am
Every so often these people find me all over. Stalkers (a la GTS) will find me online and, like GTS, attempt to undermine my knowledge, my culture and the rest of our traditions. All in an attempt to prove that what little evidence they have, if non-existent, is correct.This Afro-Centric guy (Thotsins) finds me, comments on my page, comments on his own page obviously, and was upset that another person by the name of KamiteGnostic who was flooding my comments with new-age type of things converted and/or mis-interpreted from our oral traditions was doing so (spamming me basically) and said that people like me won't listen. He tries to quantify me, says that our oral traditions blantantly mentions Africa, and uses terms like "real islander" all as tools to humiliate me. Too bad, not my fault the gods blessed me with such a thick skin.Anyway, below is my response, after that I copied & pasted what he actually said. Just for one's enjoyment.=======================MY RESPONSE:Thotsins…a typical Afro-centric person trying to tell a Haole to disregard our people’s tradition. The white man really enslaved you, which is why you are trying too hard to find some type of “Africanism” for you to grab onto since the White man stole your ancestors’ cultures.First of all, that Haole – KamiteGnostic person was misinterpreting our oral stories. They used a Haole’s ENGLISH translation, but in the language alone, particularly when it comes to things focusing on people and places, there are a lot of KAONA in them.Second, the fact that you try to belittle people such as myself who actually grew up with strong, non-American traditions is yet another sign of the White Man’s destructive force and, obviously has succeeded and the result is YOU.Third, I’m sure you’ve heard of the “glass half empty or glass half full” analogy. It’s nothing more than perception. The fact that you try to diminish our oral traditions by stating to a 3rd person (KamiteGnostic) on my “comment” section of my own youtube page rather than address that person on their page is a strategy well known. Unless you’re just really clueless of how this site works, but a comment is a comment and it’s not a forum where all parties are emailed on anyone’s response.The fact that you used “real islander” not once but twice tells me that you are a true outsider, a foreigner. See, we don’t focus on the fact that we are “islanders”. Again, the glass half empty or half full concept. ALL LOCAL PEOPLE focus on those who cannot conform, hence we use the term HAOLE, or OUTSIDER or MAILANDER or even FOREIGNER. HAOLE and MAINLANDER are the common ones you’ll hear. No one says that they are “islanders”, not even “natives”. So you should learn the local parlance at least. And having said that, that should say a lot about how WE perceive people like YOU. Nothing but an OUTSIDER.Fourth, I wish you could back up your statement of “oral traditions blatantly say they came from AFRICA.” You only wish that were true. Nuumealani, Holani, Kuaihelani, Ka aina kai melemele a Kane, PunaAuia, Keolo'ewa, Ha'enakula'ina, Kauaniani, Ololomehani, Olalowaia, Kahonuailalo, Honuailalo, aina kumu paa a Kane, aina apaapaa a Kane, Kahikiku, and Kahiki Kapakapauaakane, none of these places exist in Africa. These are the only a few of the names of the places where our ancestors came from places south and west to the Hawaiian islands.We won’t listen to foreigners such as you who claim that we come from Africa in an attempt to not only undermine our culture a la WHITE WASH method like how the White people did to your kind, but also to make yourself seem a bit more superior as far as culture go, yet the fact is you can only use that claim, although with any evidence, but STILL act and talk like a White person. The only thing that makes you different from a White person is your skin complexion. Everything else however, it screams “white man”.Don’t you think it’s ironic that we have an unbroken oral tradition, and not just us, but other Maoli/Maohi/Maori/Mao’i throughout Polynesia, and here you Afro-centrics try to claim that our ancestors came from Africa, yet none of you can provide any substantial proof?And it’s bad enough you try to marginalize our people and culture, but worse you try to include yourself with other “Africans” as if you have their culture and speak any African language.Speaking only English is a strong sign of how slavery, if not colonialism has made a strong impact on your kind.And for the record, we don’t like other locals from other islands coming onto our smaller, less progressive but more culturally preserved ISLAND. Just because you claim to speak to these so called “real islander people”, that doesn’t give you evidence of how my people came from Africa. Like the White man, they think we are ONE nation, but we’re not. Every island has their tradition and differences and ours is different. Our calendaring system was different from the other islands, some of the words we use are different and the gods that were worshipped were definitely different from the other islands.Seeing your comments on your own page to yourself, and all these “African-like” things you’re into tells me that you haven’t found what you’ve been searching for after what the White man has done to your people and that is take away your culture. At least I grew up with mine and know mine well and speak the language.=============Thotsins wrote:KamiteGnostic why are you wasting your time telling this valuable knowledge to this filipino? You should tell it to real islanders. No matter what you say, even if you go all the way to break down the true meaning of the Kahuna traditions, these asians have to try to claim a culture because they don't have one. They gain cultures by INTERMARRYING and COPYING other cultures in order to have one. The sad thing is that they quote oral tradition and sadly still can't figure out where the places of origin are located. The oral traditions blatantly say they came from AFRICA, but they won't listen because they'll lose a culture they've taken over. You should talk to real Hawaiians not the filipino ones who barely have any Hawaiian in them. And talk to Africans because our numerous cultures are rich and detailed we know where our people came from and went. As an African I've had some really interesting conversations with real Islander people.
Well according to the genographic project, the people that make up polynesian today, left africa about the same time all the other races left, like europeans. 70, 000 years ago or something like that. African culture today is nothing like what was happening 70,000 years ago, to say we carry any kind of similarity with that culture, besides just being human is ignorance. That means our culture has been developing for 70,000 or more years!
The interesting part is the mutations that scientist find on the y cromosomes correspond to a new language developing. So, those mythical places of origins are true. That's when our language and culture became polynesian and then later though isolation, Hawaiian.
real islanders=anyone from hawaii who agrees/compliments his posistion.
See, I think our religion IS European in nature, albeit a distinctly personalized one. In my western literature classes, I learned about how authors would attribute stories for the greater glory of their native culture. I believe all the epics are written in such a way so as to praise the authors country and culture. Likewise, this principle may have been carried in the Hawaiian Pantheon of Mythological telling.
I sent you a PM, about the theory....I forgot to fit Mu in there ;p
I've talked to First Nations people about "pagan" and the western concept of how our relious practices or practices in general are pagan because it's not of European in origin.
And maybe I shouldn't have used Hawaiian, but kanaka. In this context, it has nothing to do with the nation, and since our traditions go back for numerous generations, which is why I used Hawaiian, in the sense of kanaka.
Feel free to share your thoughts on origins. I joke about aliens as benevolent beings. LOL but, it makes me laugh...the uncomfortable laugh, because it makes me wonder.
I think I agree with you. Hawaiian origins are strictly Hawaiian. Hawaii for Hawaiians. He Hawaii Au, Mau a Mau.
I think where we may disagree, if at all, is what qualifies one as a Hawaiian. I believe in the Hawaiian consciousness. Those who have it, have it. Those who don't, don't. I believe this will manifest in the spirit and personality of an individual. People like Conklin and his merry-men of highway robbers will never be Hawaiian. They are diametrically opposed to the native ideals. On the other hand, I think those without the consciousness, but have the spirit will eventually become a part of that consciousness by adopting the culture, respects, and kuleanas of the Hawaiian consciousness by marrying and procreating into it; the proverbial union.
I agree, the culture is as distinct as, say, Germanic cultures. And, if one is in Germany, you would probably be expected to adhere to their cultural norms. As a Hawaiian in Hawaii, where is our respect? Indeed, our Ku'e is strong.
As far as the 'new age' movement, the term 'new age' in itself is an interference run. Labels carry as much weight as you allow it to. 'Gnostic' is just a fancy way of saying I believe in Pagan beliefs. Hawaiian beliefs are purportedly Pagan beliefs.... It's hard for most people to reconcile perceived contradictory dogmas, beliefs, and/or superstitions.
I'd really like to kick around my theory on origins, if you'll have it.
I just noticed that one of Hōkūlani Kīna`ū's Youtube video was posted by a former classmate by one year later (1986), Noelani Arista ABD PhD, at Facebook. I like Youtube partly because of people like him but dislike it because of some people like those people who leave pilau comments on YOUR Youtube page *LOL*
I understand where mankind comes from and how humankind (probably a more PC word) went to various parts of the world. Then there are ournown different traditions all of which started somewhere. Probably my in the places i mentioned in my response to that tothsin person, or maybe even before that. But I ackowledge Hawaiian origins as strictly "Hawaiian". No different really than acknowledging my family coming from Molokai, although my roots go back to the islands of Maui, Hawaii, Madeira, Maripipi, and Cebu as well as China.
Maybe I shouldve posted the stuff that KG left. It may seem convincing to others but seems new age to me.
I don't know this KamiteGnostic person, but what you quoted seems like he may have a splinter in his eye. If that were true, his words are echoing in ignorance by 'trying to convert(?)' somebody of a different race. Personally, I think it is the spirit of the person that counts, and not necessarily the color of ones skin. Speaking of intermarrying, The first inhabitants of Hawaii readily procreated with the Tahitian immigrants. That wave of inhabitants were more then eager to accept John Young and Isaac Davis as one of their own, even marrying them into royal families. Is this semblance of that last vestige of that Aloha Spirit that tourists are fed with? Most of us Hawaiians today are indeed a part of several different races. If the aumakua is a universal truth, it is made of all your ancestors, not just a selective few.
I think what I'm trying to say is that one's spirit should matter more then their appearance. If you go back to the very early roots of Hawaiian heritage, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a guiding principle. What really did happen to the Aloha? Was colonization responsible for hardening the aloha hearts? I suspect materialism had a major role.
As far as Afrikans, I suppose they should be feeling a sudden re-emergence of their cultural identity and even superiority. Unfortunately, this may be because of the realization of a Black President.
I would ask Mr. Gnostic Afrikan, "Ras Tafari Makkonnen, Haile Selassie I was a great man. In his divine wisdom, why did he not liberate his people?" I'm sure there's a divine answer for Rastafaris actions, but that should rattle KGs ego....
BTW Kalani, do you have a theory on the origins of the original Hawaiian people? I have a theory related to an indo-european culture that might be fun to kick around with you.
KG like anyone else so was oppressed seem to forget he was there too. At least his generation long before he was born. Unfortunately we all have something common, still in search of "who we are." Likewise, we still have a culture and we will perpetuate regardless of ill comments made by those who see through the "glass half filled!"
Lana...yes, that's what I like to remind them that, although their kind was oppressed, nice to know that their oppressors taught them to do the same to the rest of us although we were oppressed by na haole too, in their attempt to make them seem better, superior as you say.
Hey...moroccon is cool. Still watching some italian movie w/ moroccon people in it apparently. And yes, a REAL islander. I don't come from a REAL ISLAND apparently. So what, do I come from Kuaihelani or something? lol
Hokulani...they have a habit of turning things around, just as Ken Conklin does. But all these evidence they try to twist it in their favor, rather than seeing it for what it is actually saying. And the fact that they like to claim any other culture as their own, again, to make them seem superior, as if THEY gave us that technology, when in reality they were raised w/o their own native culture. That's what it comes down to.
"real Islander" versus what... REAL African ---> REAL human??? LOL I can understand that slavery and racism were used to hurt popolos but to imply that African are REAL islanders??? That is exactly what the oppressors did... imply that slaves were less than human and now the oppressed are becoming the oppressors. See why I do NOT allow some people to respond not even at LJ LOL
IMHO Youtube can be much worse with some Generation Y-ers using it to stimulate themselves with what... useless diatribes lol Some use it to flame for the sake of flaming. Like you mentioned... when I was younger I didnt come online to flame others. My nieces are not allowed to do that. Obviously flaming is alive and well at Youtube lol
Comments
The interesting part is the mutations that scientist find on the y cromosomes correspond to a new language developing. So, those mythical places of origins are true. That's when our language and culture became polynesian and then later though isolation, Hawaiian.
real islanders=anyone from hawaii who agrees/compliments his posistion.
I sent you a PM, about the theory....I forgot to fit Mu in there ;p
And maybe I shouldn't have used Hawaiian, but kanaka. In this context, it has nothing to do with the nation, and since our traditions go back for numerous generations, which is why I used Hawaiian, in the sense of kanaka.
Feel free to share your thoughts on origins. I joke about aliens as benevolent beings. LOL but, it makes me laugh...the uncomfortable laugh, because it makes me wonder.
I think where we may disagree, if at all, is what qualifies one as a Hawaiian. I believe in the Hawaiian consciousness. Those who have it, have it. Those who don't, don't. I believe this will manifest in the spirit and personality of an individual. People like Conklin and his merry-men of highway robbers will never be Hawaiian. They are diametrically opposed to the native ideals. On the other hand, I think those without the consciousness, but have the spirit will eventually become a part of that consciousness by adopting the culture, respects, and kuleanas of the Hawaiian consciousness by marrying and procreating into it; the proverbial union.
I agree, the culture is as distinct as, say, Germanic cultures. And, if one is in Germany, you would probably be expected to adhere to their cultural norms. As a Hawaiian in Hawaii, where is our respect? Indeed, our Ku'e is strong.
As far as the 'new age' movement, the term 'new age' in itself is an interference run. Labels carry as much weight as you allow it to. 'Gnostic' is just a fancy way of saying I believe in Pagan beliefs. Hawaiian beliefs are purportedly Pagan beliefs.... It's hard for most people to reconcile perceived contradictory dogmas, beliefs, and/or superstitions.
I'd really like to kick around my theory on origins, if you'll have it.
i aloha'aha'a
I just noticed that one of Hōkūlani Kīna`ū's Youtube video was posted by a former classmate by one year later (1986), Noelani Arista ABD PhD, at Facebook. I like Youtube partly because of people like him but dislike it because of some people like those people who leave pilau comments on YOUR Youtube page *LOL*
I understand where mankind comes from and how humankind (probably a more PC word) went to various parts of the world. Then there are ournown different traditions all of which started somewhere. Probably my in the places i mentioned in my response to that tothsin person, or maybe even before that. But I ackowledge Hawaiian origins as strictly "Hawaiian". No different really than acknowledging my family coming from Molokai, although my roots go back to the islands of Maui, Hawaii, Madeira, Maripipi, and Cebu as well as China.
Maybe I shouldve posted the stuff that KG left. It may seem convincing to others but seems new age to me.
I think what I'm trying to say is that one's spirit should matter more then their appearance. If you go back to the very early roots of Hawaiian heritage, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a guiding principle. What really did happen to the Aloha? Was colonization responsible for hardening the aloha hearts? I suspect materialism had a major role.
As far as Afrikans, I suppose they should be feeling a sudden re-emergence of their cultural identity and even superiority. Unfortunately, this may be because of the realization of a Black President.
I would ask Mr. Gnostic Afrikan, "Ras Tafari Makkonnen, Haile Selassie I was a great man. In his divine wisdom, why did he not liberate his people?" I'm sure there's a divine answer for Rastafaris actions, but that should rattle KGs ego....
BTW Kalani, do you have a theory on the origins of the original Hawaiian people? I have a theory related to an indo-european culture that might be fun to kick around with you.
Maika.
/Off Soapbox
Hey...moroccon is cool. Still watching some italian movie w/ moroccon people in it apparently. And yes, a REAL islander. I don't come from a REAL ISLAND apparently. So what, do I come from Kuaihelani or something? lol
Hokulani...they have a habit of turning things around, just as Ken Conklin does. But all these evidence they try to twist it in their favor, rather than seeing it for what it is actually saying. And the fact that they like to claim any other culture as their own, again, to make them seem superior, as if THEY gave us that technology, when in reality they were raised w/o their own native culture. That's what it comes down to.
IMHO Youtube can be much worse with some Generation Y-ers using it to stimulate themselves with what... useless diatribes lol Some use it to flame for the sake of flaming. Like you mentioned... when I was younger I didnt come online to flame others. My nieces are not allowed to do that. Obviously flaming is alive and well at Youtube lol
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