Comment

Comment by Noelani Diego-Josselin on May 18, 2009 at 11:29pm

Looking for legal and spiritual supporters and advisors who can help growing group protect, preserve and restore the Ahupua'a of Wailuanui ahoano. ke one o Alio and the Iwi's burried in its sand dunes is about to be destroyed by the County of kauai . Anyone who's bloodline is that of Manokalanipo is encouraged to help protect, preserve and restore Its sand and beaches.
Mahalo

Noelani
to help build Ahu on poipoi lio.

Comment by Kaapuikinaea on May 17, 2009 at 1:46pm

Aloha mai kakou.

I'd like to add about e on earliest forms of veneration, Ku & Hina stones, f and c w/ the cosmic forces, balance, etc. The way I was taught on Molokai, Ku & Hina were prominent on the island and the stones, or these phallic like stones were all over the island, particularly good for crops where the farmers would take the rocks, particularly from one area in the hopes that their crops were bountiful. If I'm not mistaken, Ku was also the god of farming. Payers were done to both Ku & Hina when gathering herbs, facing the east for Ku & west for Hina, both whose names actually mean the opposite of one another. So this balance as you said was very important.

Comment by lanilindsey on May 15, 2009 at 10:30am

Mahalo, Keonaona for your kind words. It is hard when you love a family member so deeply and they must leave you. I have an altar to my mom at home with some of her ashes and objects that she loved, including artwork of the Ali'i. Many of her dried leis adorn it, too. No, I cannot begin to remember the words of the chant... I do not speak fluently, but I would have heard words I understood... problem is, the sound went quiet as I got closer to her room, so I caught nothing of the words... the chant itself, the melody, was not a mele or hula, but sounded like a entreaty or greeting that accompanies or even opens an event.It was eerie, only because it was unexpected, but the sound of the chant itself was comforting and ancient. I guess I just assumed it was my Grandmother Sarah. Would love to hear your stories. Aloha, steph

Comment by Maika on May 14, 2009 at 4:40pm

Is there a true religion? Is there a one world true religion? Is the true religion cut into thirds? 1/3 Christians, 1/3 Muslims, 1/3 Jewish? Perhaps religion, an organized belief system, is designed to steal your mana? How much mana does one comfortably give to 'faith' without feeling cheated? If you believe in the teachings of the Torah or old testament, Jesus, god bless his good looks, would own all your eyes for his eyes. And you know, if you believe in Buddhism, Karma works regardless of being forgiven. So, since the world hated him, and he forgave them, karma still had its kuleana to take care of. Perhaps, however, The thirty years of Jesus life absent from the new testament is him learning esoteric pagan beliefs. Who knows. There's a lot of speculation and no evidence. What did the knights templar find during the crusades? Why is the pope's position predicated on tracing lineage back to Peter? If Peter was the Rock that the church was built on, who was the stone that the builder refused, and why is he the head corner stone?? Too much drama in the Torah, Koran, and Jesus story. Perhaps the one true religion was the one first religion. What was wrong with the one first religion? The people that had to reason with the first religion probably didn't have to sacrifice mana for faith.

I have a ton more, but my attention is being beckoned away. All these faux gurus looking to steal a peoples culture for profit. das karma bra. The answers aren't even here. They. are. every. where.

Take the time. Free your mind.

i alo'ha'aha'a,

Maika.

Comment by Tamaainareo on May 14, 2009 at 1:23pm

I tend to believe that Hawaiians were pantheists it the sense that they believed in a wide variety of deities. But as Hokulani pointed out in his reply, the Hawaiian concept of akua, was/is not the same as that of the Greek "theos" or Nordic "aesir", but closer to the Japanese idea of kami.

Comment by keonaona on May 14, 2009 at 8:17am

Mahalo Lani Lindsey for sharing something so special and beautiful regarding your mother and the visitations by your kupuna. Did you remember the chant, the melody or the words? I had a similar experience but it was in a dream and I was asked to try to remember the chant - it just shows what a beautiful race of people we are descended from and how remarkable our ancestors were. E'O!

Comment by Mahealani Uchiyama on May 14, 2009 at 5:57am

Mahalo e Hōkūlani,

I greatly appreciate your thoughtful and detailed analysis.

I find the interest in "new age" beliefs held by some members of the community to be quite unsettling. The indigenous wisdom of many of the world's peoples have been objectified and exploited in so many ways for so long, it is hard to know where to find the center.

I perceive quite a bit misinformation going on in the community regarding Hawaiian and Native American spiritual practices. I myself am a practitioner of a form of African spirituality called Ifa which in this place and time has been distorted and grossly misunderstood by the mainstream. Having to regularly contend with crazy assumptions born out of decades of misinformation has rendered me rather sensitive about the topic of Indigenous beliefs and practices.

When the topic of this form of Ho'oponopono came up with my haumana, I recommended that it be taken with a huge spoon of salt.

We went on to further discuss that there is a lot of resentment of those who learn a bit about Hawaiian culture, and then set about to practicing it and teaching it before they have had a firm foundation which is recognized by the Hawaiian community. They often don't credit their sources, or if they do, it often seems as if these sources themselves are not recognized by the community.

They were advised to go onto the Indigenous Spirituality section of Amazon.com, make a note of who the authors are, and report back to me.

Again, I haven't heard of this author, but the very fact that he is out there and we are talking about him makes me suspicious.

Mahalo again for providing some needed insight.

Mahealani

Comment by Maika on May 14, 2009 at 3:49am

Originally posted by Hōkūlani Kīna`ū
Getting back to the topic of spirituality, do you believe that Hawaiians were pantheists, polytheists, or something else? I personally believe that Hawaiians were pantheistic and I'll explain why later.

Aloha e ... Hoku,

It seems like you've really studied up on the Origins. I appreciate the pictures you put up too. I think there was a similar Java migration picture in kikawa's Perpetuated in Righteousness. I would be interested to here your mana'o on the religious systems. Personally, I think if you follow pantheism to it's logical conclusion, it seems like you get something entirely different. I don't know, though. I probably misinterpreting the definition of patheism.

Parenthetically, I found this quote a little funny: "The atheist Richard Dawkins describes pantheism as "materialism on steroids."

Aloha for you,

Maika.

Comment by Tamaainareo on May 13, 2009 at 1:09pm

Aloha Hokulani,
Ah yes, Ka'ahumanu. She was quite a figure in Hawaiian history .Her desire for power has changed Hawaiian culture, in many ways more than the missionaries. From her pressuring Kamehameha II to breaking the eating kapu, to her edict of making Christianity the official religion of Hawai'i. She was behind the banning and expulsion of the first Catholic missionaries. She probably believed that she could control the Congregational missionaries, while she consolidated power for herself.She probably didn't really care that she was not confirmed until three years later,into the church, she got what she really wanted power. There are several examples, when the missionary leader Hiram Bingham voiced his frustration at how Ka'ahumanu treated him and fellow missionaries, and of her hesitancy to grant land for mission churches. She rates up there with Catherine the Great of Russia, and Elisabeth I of England, in terms of powerful women, but as a true believer of Christianity, her actions belie her beliefs.

I agree with you, about the Polynesians' Pacific roots. I have always resented the idea, that Polynesians were from Israel, or for that matter the land of Mu, or Atlantis. The very idea , belittles the achievements of our ancestors' great journeys across the vast Pacific, and their colonisation of new lands. These western stories of Polynesian origins, were 17th and 18th century attempts to tie Polynesians to the biblical stories that Europeans grew up with. At one time, it was believed that the English were from the lost tribe of Benjamin. Joseph Smith was not the first to believe that the Aboriginal Americans were originally descendents of Israelites, the Puritan writer Cotton Mather , questioned whether Indians were "the Children of Abraham".When they missionaries came to Hawai'i, they claimed to see many similarities of Hawaiians to ancient Israel, such as the cities of refuge, and dietary restrictions.Then the was language, like the example you brought up concerning Ra/ La. Polynesian languages were also claimed to be a deviation from ancient Sumerian( MU being the place settled by Sumerian colonists), probably because like Polynesian, many Sumerian words tended to be consonant+vowel/ vowel+vowel combinations. Again, it is an insult , to believe that Polynesians, or any Pacific peoples were incapable of their own native intelligences and accomplishments. Another reason why I have such a problem with Huna, is that very denial of that native intelligence, by attributing it to Egyptians, Sumerians and Israelites.

Comment by Tamaainareo on May 13, 2009 at 12:01pm

re Mahealani's question." "I have recently had a number of students ask me about the work of Dr. Ihalakala Hew Lin, Morrnah Simeona, and something called "Self Identity Through Ho'oponopono". I have not heard about this form of ho'oponopono and was wondering if anyone on the list has any knowledge of or an opinion about what is going on here? "

I have not heard of ho'oponopono used as a tool to aid self identity. I have always known it used to help resolve family and even communal differences or conflict. Perhaps, when it helped the unit, it helped with "self identity".
I can't claim to know all the different forms of ho'oponopono, only that which I'm familiar with, and that is to resolve differences/conflicts. Is it possible to hold ho'oponopono within yourself ?

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