Aloha kakou!
The appearance of this group is interesting. How does it differ from the group "Hawaiians in Science?" Why was it called "Hawaiian Scientific" instead of "Hawaiian Science?" How does Hawaiian Science differ from 'Ike Hawai'i, or are the two synonymous or related? I suppose this is what this group is all about!
I look forward to hearing from its creator on the subject, and on the motivation and desires behind its creation.
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The two are definitely related. The intent was to have this be a forum that people could share pilot projects, research and other forms of academic and experiential science based knowledge to create a networking and information sharing group to help those who are living it and those who are researching it. Ikaika and I come from the same thought, perhaps we should see how Hawaiian Scientific which I see being almost journal like can fit into the plan. I am down to do whatever and even close shop if it seems redundant.
Mahalo for bringing this to light, please share Mana'o on what we should think of doing with this opportunity
Ehehe, e ke hoa, oiaiʻo no! Took me a few years to find the name of Cressa truxillensis, but as I posted on the Mea Ulu Group, it has an inoa Hawaii, and the early botanists, such as Jules Remy learned it from the oiwi of Molokaʻi: makihi. I only wish the early entomologists were as attentive as the early haole botanists, as it is certain that there were names for all the obvious insects and spiders, beyond the generic "mea kolo" "lanalana", "enuhe", "uhini" etc.
ʻOhu
What an amazing and insightful post, Kalei. As I research moʻo for my graduate thesis, I find myself choosing my words carefully and you have just helped me by showing me a way to frame what information I am mapping out. Thank you! You were the first, if I am not mistaken, to write a graduate thesis in Hawaiian (Laina Wong was the first to write a PhD dissertation in Hawaiian). In any case, whether your thesis was in Hawaiian or English, the same challenges apply - How to discuss and share what is found in the context of a Western vehicle for knowledge, i.e., hypothesis, theory, methodology, thesis, dissertation, peer review, scientific, etc., and correlate it with the Hawaiian cultural perspective. Presenting knowledge in a Western way and presenting knowledge with a Hawaiian worldview are two different things. Western methodology often requires validating "data", I don't want to validate anything - I want to make information available - map it out to reconnect fragmented information dispersed in literature, which makes access challenging.
Whew. That's enough for now. Once again, thank you for posting. You are quite an inspiration.
Mahalo e Jon!
I like the answer, it sits comfortably with me, but I wonder if the term "Hawaiian Science" means many things to many people... To some, so-called "Western Science" and "Ike Hawaiʻi" are at odds, and often there is a polarization that demeans the other while espousing the superiority of one. In our two-world existence (AoMaoli/AoHaole), though, it is more useful to find that which is practical and beneficial in both, rather than reject one for the other.
But it boils down to what "Hawaiian Science" means to people.
Is that a good topic for early discussion on this group?
Jon Ching > ʻOhukaniʻōhiʻaMarch 7, 2008 at 11:42am
Mahalo Ohu
Yes, I agree with the diluted meaning of Hawaiian Science. But after 100's of years of observation and learning I know Hawaiian Science has much to offer Western Science. I hope that this group can be filled with Hawaiians along with Hawaiians in Science (by Chris) to be two sources of info that can be used to unite us further and hopefully even a source of documentation and critique and even a place to go for help for those living the cultural science and those in school who are trying to bridge the two together.
The potential is exiting and I look forward to any and all mana'o to help this get rolling.
What I wonder Jon, is how much of what was in the body of knowledge prior to Western contact was able to survive the huge losses of population and social disruption in the century between contact and the end of the monarchy. As John Papa ʻIʻi pointed out, what was left of ʻike Hawaiʻi even in his time was mere fragments. I still share your view that what remains is of great value, but it is certainly not true that what was known by kanaka maoli 500 years ago remains with us today. In fact for most kanaka maoli, very little remains... He mea kaumaha.
To balance that is the upsurge of interest in language, hana noʻeau, and ʻike Hawaiʻi that I see in many places - it is a time of rebuilding and like you I look to great potential.
My hopes is that our people can use our gift of our Na'au and join it with our opportunities that we have to other methodologies of academic knowledge bases. In essence how to use the sciences to our benefit. Now how much mana'o has been lost is unquantifiable and un documented. This day, this age we have a chance to use our ancestral linkage to try to bridge this gap.
I often pose the question of "I wonder how po'e kahiko dealt with...." and rattle off something that I or someone else is currently trying to do/study. In deep contemplation I believe that sometimes my imagination is guided and I get a glimpse of what might have been. It is this level of critical thinking that I would like to see discussed. Some of us have the advantage of retaining knowledge that has been passed on for generations some to be shared and some that is for our families. The more we can share, the more we can try in our modern day environment, the closer i feel we can get to the root knowledge that we seek. Like an episode of CSI with the remaining sites, artifacts and environments, combined with x files and the thought of methods of communication that is thought to be unheard of in the Western world, I believe we are on the cusp of unlocking the knowledge of our ancestors, little, by little, one by one, the more me unite in all aspects, the more pono we become, the more the kupuna will reveal.
I checked out your discussion on the wahi pana site. We are so blessed to have people like you to share mana'o. I just wanted to say mahalo for all that you do and share.
I like to think that like all the people of the many nations of this world, that we can use various tools and adapt them to our needs. Trying to bridge the two worldviews is quite a challenge for me. I am currently researching the the bodily forms of the kupua moo, but have a wider interest in them in general. I am also very interested in the current issues surrounding the language. It isn't easy coming to terms with the many repercussions of the last 115 years of English replacing Hawaiian for many people, and the subsequent return to the Hawaiian language. It is often a painful subject for many and thus, must be approached with much care. I speak from personal experience. I grew up speaking English and therefore my pronunciation is quite American-English sounding. One must start somewhere, ea? These notions tend to fall under the discipline of anthropology and linguistic anthropology. I think understanding all the roads that led us to where we are today is often helpful to seeing the bigger picture, which in turn helps us to find harmony individually and as a people. I joined this group with the hopes to learn. Mahalo.
I agree, I think by following our Na'au and our experiential learning, the western side can be met to some level of understanding. To me and the people around me we are still learning what our ancestors have basically perfected. In this we must follow our instincts, Na'au, Kupuna, Aumakua and the likes to further unravel the mysteries behind the way and why of things. We have the opportunity to use other science methodologies and technology to help us bring our Maoli "sciences" to a new level. I like to think of it this way, if our kupuna had access to the technology and mana'o of today, how would that improve the culturally, environmentally minded ways of doing things that they had practiced. To me that would lead to the answers for the ultimate sustainable existence throughout the pae 'aina. This is the kind of thing that I would like to see us head toward in this group. Many hands make the work light, many minds working together, makes the work that is now light more effective and conducive to our land and our people
I am too have an interest in Mo'o. I was wondering if I might check out some Mana'o from someone like you who are into it. I am working on a sculpture that will include a mo'o figure and would love to hear your thoughts and possible features that I might be able to portray. I think we have a mutual friend who said she would hit you up on this topic of Mo'o, or I could be mistaken, either way, I would love your input.
When I draw my mo'o I usually break tradition and put them in demi-mo'o form. The lower half of the body is reptilian, rather similar to the large Komodo dragons, but from between the shoulders of this creature rises the upper half of a human body. I like doing this because it represents their dual nature - a sort of visual kaona.
I say follow your na'au and draw them as they inspire you. Art is art. What kind of medium are you using to sculpt?
I am have read quite a bit of material on mo'o, but cannot claim to have read it all. I find it fascinating. I would like to do check out Tahitian mo'o lore and any other mo'o lore from oceanic peoples. You ever heard of Joseph Campbell? He wrote "Heros with a Thousand Faces." If you haven't, and like to read and think deeply about the importance of myth in our lives, then try reading it. Myths are a part of our intangible cultural heritage, it is those stories we were weaned on, the basis of our beliefs passed on orally from generation to generation, and which eventually made their way into written form upon occasion. The folklore tradition states that each story has many variations making it that much more interesting by comparing the variants. That suits our many stories, just fine don't you think? Hawaiians have different cosmogonic myths and not all of them agree, but this never bothered me. If Einstein's Theory suggests the existence of parallel universes, then why can't I be pleased in our various wonderful stories of creation. There is no one truth, but many and all according to perspective.
Only Martha Beckwith (that I know of, and if I am wrong, please indicate what I missed out on) in her "Hawaiian Mythology" has attempted to gather knowledge from various sources about mo'o kupua. One of her main sources was something that Samuel M. Kamakau wrote in a newspaper article in Ke Au 'Oko'a in May 1870. Most of the accounts that I have read so far regarding mo'o use words like weliweli and "huge" when translated/transmitted in English. I've compiled a long list of names of mo'o and in what literature they were found. Some accounts say they had slimy skin. Other mo'o favored yellow - watery areas (ponds, rivers, streams, etc.) that had lots of yellowing leaves, etc., were said to be places of mo'o.
Hopefully this will be approved as a research topic for my graduate degree - really not feeling up to researching grammar for a thesis.
Hope to see pictures posted eventually of your art.
Replies
Mahalo for bringing this to light, please share Mana'o on what we should think of doing with this opportunity
Aloha
ʻOhu
What an amazing and insightful post, Kalei. As I research moʻo for my graduate thesis, I find myself choosing my words carefully and you have just helped me by showing me a way to frame what information I am mapping out. Thank you! You were the first, if I am not mistaken, to write a graduate thesis in Hawaiian (Laina Wong was the first to write a PhD dissertation in Hawaiian). In any case, whether your thesis was in Hawaiian or English, the same challenges apply - How to discuss and share what is found in the context of a Western vehicle for knowledge, i.e., hypothesis, theory, methodology, thesis, dissertation, peer review, scientific, etc., and correlate it with the Hawaiian cultural perspective. Presenting knowledge in a Western way and presenting knowledge with a Hawaiian worldview are two different things. Western methodology often requires validating "data", I don't want to validate anything - I want to make information available - map it out to reconnect fragmented information dispersed in literature, which makes access challenging.
Whew. That's enough for now. Once again, thank you for posting. You are quite an inspiration.
Me ke aloha,
Alohalani
I like the answer, it sits comfortably with me, but I wonder if the term "Hawaiian Science" means many things to many people... To some, so-called "Western Science" and "Ike Hawaiʻi" are at odds, and often there is a polarization that demeans the other while espousing the superiority of one. In our two-world existence (AoMaoli/AoHaole), though, it is more useful to find that which is practical and beneficial in both, rather than reject one for the other.
But it boils down to what "Hawaiian Science" means to people.
Is that a good topic for early discussion on this group?
Yes, I agree with the diluted meaning of Hawaiian Science. But after 100's of years of observation and learning I know Hawaiian Science has much to offer Western Science. I hope that this group can be filled with Hawaiians along with Hawaiians in Science (by Chris) to be two sources of info that can be used to unite us further and hopefully even a source of documentation and critique and even a place to go for help for those living the cultural science and those in school who are trying to bridge the two together.
The potential is exiting and I look forward to any and all mana'o to help this get rolling.
Mahalo Nui
To balance that is the upsurge of interest in language, hana noʻeau, and ʻike Hawaiʻi that I see in many places - it is a time of rebuilding and like you I look to great potential.
My hopes is that our people can use our gift of our Na'au and join it with our opportunities that we have to other methodologies of academic knowledge bases. In essence how to use the sciences to our benefit. Now how much mana'o has been lost is unquantifiable and un documented. This day, this age we have a chance to use our ancestral linkage to try to bridge this gap.
I often pose the question of "I wonder how po'e kahiko dealt with...." and rattle off something that I or someone else is currently trying to do/study. In deep contemplation I believe that sometimes my imagination is guided and I get a glimpse of what might have been. It is this level of critical thinking that I would like to see discussed. Some of us have the advantage of retaining knowledge that has been passed on for generations some to be shared and some that is for our families. The more we can share, the more we can try in our modern day environment, the closer i feel we can get to the root knowledge that we seek. Like an episode of CSI with the remaining sites, artifacts and environments, combined with x files and the thought of methods of communication that is thought to be unheard of in the Western world, I believe we are on the cusp of unlocking the knowledge of our ancestors, little, by little, one by one, the more me unite in all aspects, the more pono we become, the more the kupuna will reveal.
I checked out your discussion on the wahi pana site. We are so blessed to have people like you to share mana'o. I just wanted to say mahalo for all that you do and share.
I agree, I think by following our Na'au and our experiential learning, the western side can be met to some level of understanding. To me and the people around me we are still learning what our ancestors have basically perfected. In this we must follow our instincts, Na'au, Kupuna, Aumakua and the likes to further unravel the mysteries behind the way and why of things. We have the opportunity to use other science methodologies and technology to help us bring our Maoli "sciences" to a new level. I like to think of it this way, if our kupuna had access to the technology and mana'o of today, how would that improve the culturally, environmentally minded ways of doing things that they had practiced. To me that would lead to the answers for the ultimate sustainable existence throughout the pae 'aina. This is the kind of thing that I would like to see us head toward in this group. Many hands make the work light, many minds working together, makes the work that is now light more effective and conducive to our land and our people
I am too have an interest in Mo'o. I was wondering if I might check out some Mana'o from someone like you who are into it. I am working on a sculpture that will include a mo'o figure and would love to hear your thoughts and possible features that I might be able to portray. I think we have a mutual friend who said she would hit you up on this topic of Mo'o, or I could be mistaken, either way, I would love your input.
Me ka mana'o ha'a ha'a
I say follow your na'au and draw them as they inspire you. Art is art. What kind of medium are you using to sculpt?
I am have read quite a bit of material on mo'o, but cannot claim to have read it all. I find it fascinating. I would like to do check out Tahitian mo'o lore and any other mo'o lore from oceanic peoples. You ever heard of Joseph Campbell? He wrote "Heros with a Thousand Faces." If you haven't, and like to read and think deeply about the importance of myth in our lives, then try reading it. Myths are a part of our intangible cultural heritage, it is those stories we were weaned on, the basis of our beliefs passed on orally from generation to generation, and which eventually made their way into written form upon occasion. The folklore tradition states that each story has many variations making it that much more interesting by comparing the variants. That suits our many stories, just fine don't you think? Hawaiians have different cosmogonic myths and not all of them agree, but this never bothered me. If Einstein's Theory suggests the existence of parallel universes, then why can't I be pleased in our various wonderful stories of creation. There is no one truth, but many and all according to perspective.
Only Martha Beckwith (that I know of, and if I am wrong, please indicate what I missed out on) in her "Hawaiian Mythology" has attempted to gather knowledge from various sources about mo'o kupua. One of her main sources was something that Samuel M. Kamakau wrote in a newspaper article in Ke Au 'Oko'a in May 1870. Most of the accounts that I have read so far regarding mo'o use words like weliweli and "huge" when translated/transmitted in English. I've compiled a long list of names of mo'o and in what literature they were found. Some accounts say they had slimy skin. Other mo'o favored yellow - watery areas (ponds, rivers, streams, etc.) that had lots of yellowing leaves, etc., were said to be places of mo'o.
Hopefully this will be approved as a research topic for my graduate degree - really not feeling up to researching grammar for a thesis.
Hope to see pictures posted eventually of your art.
O au no
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