Not exactly. As I've been telling a friend of mine on MW, when doing genealogy, we cannot assume that one name is the exact same person. For example, in my family there were 4 Shermaih _ae_. (last name not shown on purpose) You cannot assume that Shermaih had 4 or 5 different wives because you see diff. names for his spouses and children for each wife. That's because there was a senior, junior, and 2 more generations with the same exact name. You see this all the time when doing genealogy.Now with Hawaiian names, it gets trickier because you may not have a surname, atlhough I've seen people attach surnames when that ancestor never had one.So even something as short and simple as Kaeha, you cannot assume that name is exactly the same as Kamakaeha as evident in a discussion recently.The issue of Naihe came up and I knew myself that he couldn't have been a husband to the last Queen. She could've had a husband with that name, but the "Naihe" as we know lived generations before Liliukamakaeha.
Yep... my paternal grandfather and my father are both _ a_____ __a______ (Can't post their name since some people like to try to disturb some bones.) Of course my grandfather also went by his Chinese name _i_ _a_ too... So does my father who goes by his Chinese name too ( _a_ F_ _ _ ) *LOL*
Yes Lana, that's a perfect example and a common one too in genealogy where a parent & child, or even someone further down the line or a relative will have a similar if not same name. We cannot make assumptions that they were the same person. There are a lot of things that indicate that person lived during a certain period and some of us here, w/o mentioning any names, I believe is making that mistake. I've seen them make similar mistakes, and worse, not only misread/misinterpret what was written in Hawaiian, but can't even comprehend English! They've even gone far as bringing up, if not boasting, how long they've been doing genealogy research. Who cares? I've been doing it as long as they have but I don't boast about it nor do I act like it's a title. you can do it for X amt. of yrs. but if you don't know how to do it right, it's worthless.
My paternal grandfather and my father both have the same first and last names but different initials:
_ a_____ __a______ (Can't post their name since some people like to try to disturb some bones.)
If someone were to see their first and last names though they may misinterpret it to mean that they are the same person LOL
As for mane'o people... that part may show up in the family trees but what Kaohi stated about some people not wanting to discuss... my Hilo Grandma was like that. She did not want us to know certain things and I can understand why. In a way she wanted to protect us and I don't blame her. It was after she died when her half sister told me lots.
Conversely sometimes they do not want us to dig up our bones which is understandable. Perhaps they wanted to protect us. Sometimes when we dig we find some things that we should not see and/or should not find. I disagree with failing to fully disclose though but who am I to argue with my kupuna? :P
By the way one of my cousins has the same Hawaiian middle name and maiden name as my twin sister. If they were listed as such some people may misinterpret it to mean that they are the same person... but they are not.
Genealogy is a source of pride that corrupts through uplifting, especially if the notion of Ali'i crosses your path. To play in kapiolani park you gotta be so high you touch the ground... with your nose... well not all the time but still. It is good enough for me to know that I touch something as significant as the Kumulipo. Besides, the only genealogy that counts outside the ones that graced your fondest memories is your spiritual one, and those guys a tight bunch. Somebody told me to study the banyan tree to understand it. Perhaps I'll explain it in more depth later. I have made peace within myself by welcoming any ancestor that would like to come to me, but ia told me apau.
I noticed you mentioned Joseph Kahaawai and the Massie case. I was trying to think of martyrs and it seems you have presented me with one. Previous to that the list was a bit shallow with Eddie Aikau and George Helm. Anybody know any others? Mahalokonanohoilokokakouealohanui
I guess an incest birth occurred pre-contact and we have been living in the shadow of shame ever since the missionaries came to Hawaii.
Perhaps, or named in honor of a niaupio? I dunno, but whatever the case, that's what they did back then in order to preserve their rank. They've done it to some extent in Europe too, but not as close as how Hawaiians did. Although I don't dive too much into that type of history with non-oiwi people, if I do, I always enlighten them on cultural differences & make sure they understand that judging actions of people back then is not for us to do & have to understand why things were done that way. That is when I stress rank & how that dictated people's lives as well, how our ancestors were viewed as gods (hence the name Lani or Ka Lani used a lot in their names) and that was what they did to preserve their rank, to breed among their own kind.
Aloha Kalani,
I'm not as 'on it' with my genealogy as I like to be, and I am aware that the next generation is going to suffer greatly from my lack of researching and holding family reunions. I pray that the on going genealogist will be kind to the next generations.
I am a 'niaupio from Ko'olaupoko, I guess an incest birth occurred pre-contact and we have been living in the shadow of shame ever since the missionaries came to Hawaii. I'm very proud of this birth, but don't care to have this conversation with most people. It's very funny how both my younger sister (Hilo) and brother (Maui) are constantly in court because some in-laws or stranger are trying to steal 'niaupio babies, and from hospital nursery too. It is stupid and ugly.
My grandfather lived the ahupuaa system and paid dearly for his stance (way). According to my dad my grandfather moved four times as the missionaries did their land stealing in Koolaupoko Moku. My dad is still with me living in the kitchen he was born at Maunawili. We still have the rose bush growing in my dad's yard that 'Liliu' wrote the song for 'Aloha Oe' "Thou sweet rose of Maunawili" third verse. Next door, cousin’s--we have lo'is that pre-date the Nuuanu Battle with Kamehameha. On this ili- the graves are still intact. I should be more appreciative of what I have, however it takes a lot of in-your-face attitude with family/nonfamily memebers.
I recently took Pono to the place where my grandfather's brother is buried in Waimanalo. His name is Edward Niaupio he is cited in 'Sights of Oahu' Waimanalo section. I am also 2nd cousin to Joseph Kahaawai from the Massie case. I know he is buried in the Honolulu Airport area, I don't know where. It is difficult to talk to my dad, about anything so I guess the future generation--they just have to spend a lot of time in the archives to piece together info.
There is much more to this story, I hope that the next generation will have the tenacity to fight for their values. It will take spirit with hard core physical strength to preserve this 'ili Kupono' and their boundaries. Keep up with your ohana's resistance to the truth and clear facts make them understand the importance of reality as oppose to romantic fantasy. My Dad is the last remaining 'niaupio from his era, in our family. I have very little strength to preserve his legacy outside of my own children. Even that is minimum compared to the vastness of my dad's legacy. Take Care yourself Kaohi
Comments
_ a_____ __a______ (Can't post their name since some people like to try to disturb some bones.)
If someone were to see their first and last names though they may misinterpret it to mean that they are the same person LOL
As for mane'o people... that part may show up in the family trees but what Kaohi stated about some people not wanting to discuss... my Hilo Grandma was like that. She did not want us to know certain things and I can understand why. In a way she wanted to protect us and I don't blame her. It was after she died when her half sister told me lots.
Conversely sometimes they do not want us to dig up our bones which is understandable. Perhaps they wanted to protect us. Sometimes when we dig we find some things that we should not see and/or should not find. I disagree with failing to fully disclose though but who am I to argue with my kupuna? :P
By the way one of my cousins has the same Hawaiian middle name and maiden name as my twin sister. If they were listed as such some people may misinterpret it to mean that they are the same person... but they are not.
~ Lana
I noticed you mentioned Joseph Kahaawai and the Massie case. I was trying to think of martyrs and it seems you have presented me with one. Previous to that the list was a bit shallow with Eddie Aikau and George Helm. Anybody know any others? Mahalokonanohoilokokakouealohanui
Perhaps, or named in honor of a niaupio? I dunno, but whatever the case, that's what they did back then in order to preserve their rank. They've done it to some extent in Europe too, but not as close as how Hawaiians did. Although I don't dive too much into that type of history with non-oiwi people, if I do, I always enlighten them on cultural differences & make sure they understand that judging actions of people back then is not for us to do & have to understand why things were done that way. That is when I stress rank & how that dictated people's lives as well, how our ancestors were viewed as gods (hence the name Lani or Ka Lani used a lot in their names) and that was what they did to preserve their rank, to breed among their own kind.
But mahalo for your manao.
I'm not as 'on it' with my genealogy as I like to be, and I am aware that the next generation is going to suffer greatly from my lack of researching and holding family reunions. I pray that the on going genealogist will be kind to the next generations.
I am a 'niaupio from Ko'olaupoko, I guess an incest birth occurred pre-contact and we have been living in the shadow of shame ever since the missionaries came to Hawaii. I'm very proud of this birth, but don't care to have this conversation with most people. It's very funny how both my younger sister (Hilo) and brother (Maui) are constantly in court because some in-laws or stranger are trying to steal 'niaupio babies, and from hospital nursery too. It is stupid and ugly.
My grandfather lived the ahupuaa system and paid dearly for his stance (way). According to my dad my grandfather moved four times as the missionaries did their land stealing in Koolaupoko Moku. My dad is still with me living in the kitchen he was born at Maunawili. We still have the rose bush growing in my dad's yard that 'Liliu' wrote the song for 'Aloha Oe' "Thou sweet rose of Maunawili" third verse. Next door, cousin’s--we have lo'is that pre-date the Nuuanu Battle with Kamehameha. On this ili- the graves are still intact. I should be more appreciative of what I have, however it takes a lot of in-your-face attitude with family/nonfamily memebers.
I recently took Pono to the place where my grandfather's brother is buried in Waimanalo. His name is Edward Niaupio he is cited in 'Sights of Oahu' Waimanalo section. I am also 2nd cousin to Joseph Kahaawai from the Massie case. I know he is buried in the Honolulu Airport area, I don't know where. It is difficult to talk to my dad, about anything so I guess the future generation--they just have to spend a lot of time in the archives to piece together info.
There is much more to this story, I hope that the next generation will have the tenacity to fight for their values. It will take spirit with hard core physical strength to preserve this 'ili Kupono' and their boundaries. Keep up with your ohana's resistance to the truth and clear facts make them understand the importance of reality as oppose to romantic fantasy. My Dad is the last remaining 'niaupio from his era, in our family. I have very little strength to preserve his legacy outside of my own children. Even that is minimum compared to the vastness of my dad's legacy. Take Care yourself Kaohi