I had bought that book 2 weeks ago, got it last week. Not a very easy read in my opinion, but nonetheless, a lot of facts and some things I wasn't aware of, although I do wonder of the interpretation of some documents.In any event, a few people have commented on my book, one person is the typical "fascinated with anything Hawaii" type of moron. But today, another guy asked, and it's not the question but more like a statement while reading the title of the book. Everyone else laughs when they hear someone reads the title of my book. Hahaha, yes, funny, we know.So this guy, whose name is Paul, after reading it, asks says, "Hawaii The Fake State? That's not true is it?" I said, "Paul, you would know the answer to this, right? And that you are right, because...???"Then he asks why is it, and I said because of many reasons and he asked to give him one example. I gave him an earful! Unfortunately, it wasn't all the things I had underlined in the book and jotted down into my notes, but it was enough to make him realize there was truth in it. Granted I gave him my own honest opinion about the book, other than that, I'm starting to become more confident (if not fed up) in explaining to people the facts.Meanwhile, I think back to people like Eric Seabury or Ken Conklin or Jere Krischel who twists truths. The favorite one was Eric telling me how the Republic of Hawaii was the legal government and was recognized. And that Hawaii's neutrality was not broken, that Hawaii had the right to do what they want, and the best one of them all, he copied & pasted what I had mentioned in Article II where it states that only the Pres. can make treaties. He said not only him, but also the Senate. lolI took notes for a reason though, so that I can summarize them a lot easier, and in order. I think if I had done that, it would've been easier to explain everything to Paul and it would've been concise. But oh well, can't win um all.Now where's the self-proclaimed alii now? They (self proclaimed) should be educating, since they claim that many people are undereducated, yet I don't see them educating at all.
They know that other Hawaiians are exposed to external factors. That includes English.
Unfortunately some people use it as an excuse not to learn. I am super busy but I make time.
Good point e Lana. And yes, although I am aware of the external factors involved in shaping the common Hawaiian spoken throughout most of the islands, particularly in the cities, which really is no different with Pidgin too, that it is important not to let that impede anyone from learning. Like in my example, I just learned b/c it was what I wanted to do. And not till later I learned of the other things, other dialects, certain words used on certain island like on Molokai, certain pronunciation, etc. But that never stopped me from continuing. I was aware of the differences, and of course once I knew those, it was my choice to select which path would I take. Would I continue with what I already learned, or used what I just found out and adapt to these new changes & findings?
An inherent problem is that we have some people lacking knowledge of the language whether "tainted" or not then translating them into English. That is a HUGE No-No. That is when some things are lost in translation but for those who say that it is not REAL Hawaiian... that is simply an excuse NOT to learn.
Yeah, like some people who translated something in order to show that our Princess Ruth was legit. Or at least, legit regarding $$ which is why they brought up this whole thing b/c some people feel it is owed them.
And Lana, it was you who reminded me that I can make time. And now the way I make time, I write/compose more in Hawn., unlike before. I even attempted to read the bible, so that helps me with some unfamiliar, older terms too.
You can choose your own destinty, pursue other alternatives to help you understand the language. Look at it this way. You can't expect a 6 year old who speaks their native language fluently to understand the grammar and origin of their native language, because they won't. Same applies to this. Before we try to understand FULLY the Hawaiian language, start learning it.
You know how damn busy I am and one thing that is easy to do is make EXCUSES. That is what I see when I see people say that it's not REAL Hawaiian. However UH-Hilo known for its less Oa'hu-fied olelo offers books for $5 each
What is the real mother tongue? Missionary-ese, filled with intentional misnomers to throw people off, or perhaps a language that can only be taught by parents or in conversation? Mayhaps, we should look elsewhere for olelo matuahine, instead of a language written for us by ancestors of the Hi-5.
Aloha kaua e Maika.
One of my best friends from Kauai who has roots from Niihau tells me that it's not real Hawaiian but his Niihauan cousins do not look down on the Hawaiian spoken beyond Ni'ihau. They know that other Hawaiians are exposed to external factors. That includes English.
Unfortunately some people use it as an excuse not to learn. I am super busy but I make time.
ALL languages becomes synthesized in some way. Just like English.
So to me sorry but it's an excuse NOT to learn. Instead those who do not make attempts to learn take the EASY way and resort to English. It's just excuses NOT to learn.
An inherent problem is that we have some people lacking knowledge of the language whether "tainted" or not then translating them into English. That is a HUGE No-No. That is when some things are lost in translation but for those who say that it is not REAL Hawaiian... that is simply an excuse NOT to learn.
What is the real mother tongue? Missionary-ese, filled with intentional misnomers to throw people off, or perhaps a language that can only be taught by parents or in conversation?
This sounds soooo much like the other people who profess that the missionaries CHANGED the language and that the language used to have a G, a B, an R, a T, and a V. I've already explained the pronunciation, in general, of SEA people, more so of Polynesians, compared to missionaries using English letters.
A good example would be the language of the Squaxin, Lushootseed. If you see how they write that language, it looks as complicated as Vietnamese. If you hear it, they have a bunch of consonants that are either more aspirated, and almost sound like they have some click sounds in there. It would be the same if the missionaries were to put the Lushootseed into writing (way back when) but using only 26 letters of the alphabet.
What we need to understand is that we need to pronounce the letters exactly as it should be, and not use what is in our phonetic inventory, that is, use whatever we know that we pronounce in ENGLISH and apply it to Hawaiian. If we do, that's when, I guess the language seems missionary-ese. Even with the examples you used, like maitai, tamehameha, etc. When I hear people pronounce it like that, it sometimes sounds like a Haole saying it.
I've noticed this a lot lately with people learning the language. And I'll write it out phonetically. ka-koh. It should be kakou. And my cousin was not the only one who pronounces it like that. And I have a theory why they pronounce it that way, and that is basically a lot of the vowels we normally don't have a diphthong. Like with the English "no", the "o" in that word is open, whereas on the mainland, people turn it into a diphthong, sounds like the "ow" in the English - LOW.
My own personal opinion though, take one step at a time. Learn the language, and then doors will open, then you can choose. You can choose your own destinty, pursue other alternatives to help you understand the language. Look at it this way. You can't expect a 6 year old who speaks their native language fluently to understand the grammar and origin of their native language, because they won't. Same applies to this. Before we try to understand FULLY the Hawaiian language, start learning it. I was fortunate to learn little by little in the 70s as a child, but not till high school did I have my first class that had more complicated sentences, and then not until I was 19 did I decide to learn more complex grammar, then a few years later learn everything else and dialectal differences. Because back when I was 19, back when I was 16 or so, and back when I was 7 or whatever age I was when I began learning I just didn't care about pronunciation.
On a side note though, I learned to accept other dialects and respect it and I think people should do the same. Some "books" will mention dialects, but it wasn't until I read Keao NeSmith's paper did I understand something I learned with other languages. Colloquialisms and when speakers stray from proper grammar.
Someone else pointed it out to me before, where they basically broke "grammar" and it seemed very ENGLISH-like. I insisted to that person (who attends UH's law school) that THAT is not what a kupuna taught us back in the 70s. And there were other things that I learned even in the 90s, that people pronounce certain words diff. compared to the way I was taught from this same kupuna who is actually my cousins' tutu - Aunty Kauwila. It wasn't till I read Hokulani Cleeland's book that there are variations in pronunciation of these few words. Next time I go back to Molokai I'll have to talk to Aunty Kauwila about some of the words that we pronounce, the what & why. Actually, her parents have been recorded and is housed at the Bishop Museum. AUDIO TRACK LINKS
What is the real mother tongue? Missionary-ese, filled with intentional misnomers to throw people off, or perhaps a language that can only be taught by parents or in conversation? Mayhaps, we should look elsewhere for olelo matuahine, instead of a language written for us by ancestors of the Hi-5. Of the questions in my mind, Maitai; Tamehameha; Kalo a me Taro; Orono, Orono, as heard by Cook's 'first mate.' Did the Maori/Tahitian, whatevas, settle Mainland Hawaii while Kauai and east held a different dialect that actually made it into the books? Just some of the questions swimming in my head. And then, you know, even after you 'learn' the language, one still has to decipher hidden meaning in the words that can mean any number of things, to include things not even defined for it. Yeah, and then you try to use that knowledge in a casual conversation and realize that you have to re-learn everything, anyways. But I digress. The knowledge of it is a good foundation.
Yeah I like hard copies. I don't have a Kindle for that reason. You should see my reading room. It's HUGE LOL
Yeah... they are sadly mistaken that you are fearful of anyone or anything. Like you care.
I agree about the books though because many are biased but then so is hers as in biased against Princess Ruth being chosen based on her lineage.
As for being ignorant... uh she needs to educate herself about the Hawaiian language FIRST before criticizing others' ignorance because duh she is ignorant about olelo matuahine. It's her fatal flaw.
Hard copy is easier to read. I did see that they were selling that version, but I went for the hard copy instead. I left my copy at work though. The other chapters, pretty much stuff we know, but still a good read.
Alice...wow, you read fast. I take plenny notes, mark up my books, etc. Then I go over um again, sometimes. But yes, it's easy when you can just provide facts, which is why I wanted this book too, to gather more details.
As for Ken Conklin --> haha
Jere Krischel --> haha
Eric Seabury --> not as bad as the other two and you know that he is on my Facebook. Overall though he is somewhat reasonable. The other two... nope.
Mahalo for sharing. I read this book in one sitting a few weeks back. I feel more confident sharing information too! That is why its important we know our own true history and who is for and against us. It is time to stand firm and steadfast in all we do rather than to let a passive conversation pass you by.
Comments
Unfortunately some people use it as an excuse not to learn. I am super busy but I make time.
Good point e Lana. And yes, although I am aware of the external factors involved in shaping the common Hawaiian spoken throughout most of the islands, particularly in the cities, which really is no different with Pidgin too, that it is important not to let that impede anyone from learning. Like in my example, I just learned b/c it was what I wanted to do. And not till later I learned of the other things, other dialects, certain words used on certain island like on Molokai, certain pronunciation, etc. But that never stopped me from continuing. I was aware of the differences, and of course once I knew those, it was my choice to select which path would I take. Would I continue with what I already learned, or used what I just found out and adapt to these new changes & findings?
An inherent problem is that we have some people lacking knowledge of the language whether "tainted" or not then translating them into English. That is a HUGE No-No. That is when some things are lost in translation but for those who say that it is not REAL Hawaiian... that is simply an excuse NOT to learn.
Yeah, like some people who translated something in order to show that our Princess Ruth was legit. Or at least, legit regarding $$ which is why they brought up this whole thing b/c some people feel it is owed them.
And Lana, it was you who reminded me that I can make time. And now the way I make time, I write/compose more in Hawn., unlike before. I even attempted to read the bible, so that helps me with some unfamiliar, older terms too.
Aloha nani oe,
Maika.
You know how damn busy I am and one thing that is easy to do is make EXCUSES. That is what I see when I see people say that it's not REAL Hawaiian. However UH-Hilo known for its less Oa'hu-fied olelo offers books for $5 each
http://www.olelo.hawaii.edu/khuok/hknke.php
I took an online class through Aha Punana Leo. I bought some of the books. I have books, tapes, CDs, etc.
So to me there is NO excuse not to learn the Hawaiian language.
Aloha kaua e Maika.
One of my best friends from Kauai who has roots from Niihau tells me that it's not real Hawaiian but his Niihauan cousins do not look down on the Hawaiian spoken beyond Ni'ihau. They know that other Hawaiians are exposed to external factors. That includes English.
Unfortunately some people use it as an excuse not to learn. I am super busy but I make time.
ALL languages becomes synthesized in some way. Just like English.
So to me sorry but it's an excuse NOT to learn. Instead those who do not make attempts to learn take the EASY way and resort to English. It's just excuses NOT to learn.
An inherent problem is that we have some people lacking knowledge of the language whether "tainted" or not then translating them into English. That is a HUGE No-No. That is when some things are lost in translation but for those who say that it is not REAL Hawaiian... that is simply an excuse NOT to learn.
This sounds soooo much like the other people who profess that the missionaries CHANGED the language and that the language used to have a G, a B, an R, a T, and a V. I've already explained the pronunciation, in general, of SEA people, more so of Polynesians, compared to missionaries using English letters.
A good example would be the language of the Squaxin, Lushootseed. If you see how they write that language, it looks as complicated as Vietnamese. If you hear it, they have a bunch of consonants that are either more aspirated, and almost sound like they have some click sounds in there. It would be the same if the missionaries were to put the Lushootseed into writing (way back when) but using only 26 letters of the alphabet.
What we need to understand is that we need to pronounce the letters exactly as it should be, and not use what is in our phonetic inventory, that is, use whatever we know that we pronounce in ENGLISH and apply it to Hawaiian. If we do, that's when, I guess the language seems missionary-ese. Even with the examples you used, like maitai, tamehameha, etc. When I hear people pronounce it like that, it sometimes sounds like a Haole saying it.
I've noticed this a lot lately with people learning the language. And I'll write it out phonetically. ka-koh. It should be kakou. And my cousin was not the only one who pronounces it like that. And I have a theory why they pronounce it that way, and that is basically a lot of the vowels we normally don't have a diphthong. Like with the English "no", the "o" in that word is open, whereas on the mainland, people turn it into a diphthong, sounds like the "ow" in the English - LOW.
My own personal opinion though, take one step at a time. Learn the language, and then doors will open, then you can choose. You can choose your own destinty, pursue other alternatives to help you understand the language. Look at it this way. You can't expect a 6 year old who speaks their native language fluently to understand the grammar and origin of their native language, because they won't. Same applies to this. Before we try to understand FULLY the Hawaiian language, start learning it. I was fortunate to learn little by little in the 70s as a child, but not till high school did I have my first class that had more complicated sentences, and then not until I was 19 did I decide to learn more complex grammar, then a few years later learn everything else and dialectal differences. Because back when I was 19, back when I was 16 or so, and back when I was 7 or whatever age I was when I began learning I just didn't care about pronunciation.
On a side note though, I learned to accept other dialects and respect it and I think people should do the same. Some "books" will mention dialects, but it wasn't until I read Keao NeSmith's paper did I understand something I learned with other languages. Colloquialisms and when speakers stray from proper grammar.
Someone else pointed it out to me before, where they basically broke "grammar" and it seemed very ENGLISH-like. I insisted to that person (who attends UH's law school) that THAT is not what a kupuna taught us back in the 70s. And there were other things that I learned even in the 90s, that people pronounce certain words diff. compared to the way I was taught from this same kupuna who is actually my cousins' tutu - Aunty Kauwila. It wasn't till I read Hokulani Cleeland's book that there are variations in pronunciation of these few words. Next time I go back to Molokai I'll have to talk to Aunty Kauwila about some of the words that we pronounce, the what & why. Actually, her parents have been recorded and is housed at the Bishop Museum.
AUDIO TRACK LINKS
Her parents were James and Mary Poaha.
From the 'cupcakes in my heart' ;-P
stick-tongue-man. I mean, Maika.
Yeah... they are sadly mistaken that you are fearful of anyone or anything. Like you care.
I agree about the books though because many are biased but then so is hers as in biased against Princess Ruth being chosen based on her lineage.
As for being ignorant... uh she needs to educate herself about the Hawaiian language FIRST before criticizing others' ignorance because duh she is ignorant about olelo matuahine. It's her fatal flaw.
KSBE offers FREE Hawaiian language classes online: http://www.ksdl.ksbe.edu/kulaiwi
Excuses, excuses.
Alice...wow, you read fast. I take plenny notes, mark up my books, etc. Then I go over um again, sometimes. But yes, it's easy when you can just provide facts, which is why I wanted this book too, to gather more details.
As for Ken Conklin --> haha
Jere Krischel --> haha
Eric Seabury --> not as bad as the other two and you know that he is on my Facebook. Overall though he is somewhat reasonable. The other two... nope.