Royalty, Commoner, what does this prove?

Who would be for it and what do you think? I know this will never happen but with all the crap of who wants to claim who what where when and why...it would be an interesting finding.

This would stop all those who make false claims. And if we continue this way...what if we are forced to do this one day? Hmmm? Just think outside the box for awhile....SMILE

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Kinda sucks how the DNA testing works b/c you can do either your maternal or paternal line. That's it! I mean, your mother's mother's mother's mother or your father's father's father's father kinda deal. So esp. those of us who are mixed, more so for those who claim "royalty", it may not work in their favor.
In a way, that would be great. However, there are kahu hanai and adoptions outside the family that are po'o lua and just for the sake of adopting. All it would do is tell you that you possess the same dna as many others. There were also maka'ainana that were elevated to ali'i; so what's the point? Many have married outside of their Hawaiian Polynesian ancestors which could prose a problem if they carry little Hawaiian Polynesian blood. Who knows, one might descend from an Aztec king or something. Lol.... The only thing I gather what would make it do is that one has the genes of one of the ali'i; which menas the leftover DNA that can be retrieved from the ali'i is at Mauna ala and those that are dust-heaps are at the Ahu on the Palace and in burial caves or Bishop Museum. I think it would be fruitless at this point since it's a foregone conclusion most will descend from an ali'i. It's important to know who was the mother and who was the father which decides how high the rank or birthright of the person. That would be difficult to decifer. We would have to dig up all our kupuna to decipher this. What a complex situation, eh?

Remember there is only one senior line and the rest are junior lines or even maka'ainana or kauwa. Even chiefs became kauaw when they lost the bet during Makahiki; but not their bloodlines. So, let's assume all have some ali'i blood. It's what they do to achieve in their lives that will make a difference in their ranking.
To me it's a Catch-22. Like for hanai. Or for illegitimate children which may open a Pandoras Box. Or those who are malicious and try to use tools to hurt others. It may be abused. Worse.. perhaps by the local, state, and federal government. That and how when your bones are questioned you slap them in their face but it does not seem that they said with DNA (LOL)... so it can be a Catch 22.

It may fall into the wrong hands too where they will go after certain people due to the bloodline and/or legacy and get rid of them. There is some danger in that.

I would do it though because I know where my piko comes from. People who have something to hide though would probably hesitate. Partly due to some fraudulent people we may not have much of a choice... but to use it as a tool to differentiate between the heirs and the frauds.
Aloha...you all have some great viewpoints...Uncle Tane's viewpoint expands all possibilities.

If we could harvest DNA from all known ali'i that we have at rest to do such a thing, yes it would limit the branches that expand out - the point being, because these are the last descendants known and honored and entombed I say we should end it there. Meaning whomever can connect to them are the DIRECT descendants and some order will take place. If no one connects then enough talk about "I am the direct descendant, etc etc and I have the rightful etc etc - we no need hear this noise anymore as to who is the rightful one to restore themselves on throne, on power, on movement, etc. Now, for sake of argument, after this has been completed and we find a handful that is DIRECT we table the information because we then need to figure out whether before or after the testing what would this mean to us as citizens:
1). Just give em a lei, gifts, shake hands and pa'ina all weekend long?
2). Give them a rightful place on some committee to do ????
3). Provide them power to keep order to Kingdom rule?
4). ????
5). ????

We can forget about kahu hanai and adoptions of the past and allow these handful of direct descendants to spawn them on their own. Meaning the Direct Descendants decide to continue kahu hanai and adoptions from their own line or lines they know of - not our kuleana to judge what Direct Descendant do - we are honoring them to make these major decisions on bloodlines.

NOTE: I like what Kalani says, "...more so for those who claim "royalty", it may not work in their favor." Very true and a bummer but the buck stops there. They know who they are, and if the Direct Descendants want to honor them as such it would be up to the Direct Descendants. You give the power to judge royalty blood to the Direct Descendants for it would not be our kuleana to make these major decisions on bloodlines.

Here now you have a foundation to start from concerning conduct of ruling by blood ties but moreso where it might be like how England (I believe they rule from paternal and down) Japan (I believe they rule from maternal and down) - let the Direct Descendants decide on their own whether paternal/maternal because it is their kuleana. They use what genealogy they have and no one interferes or argue what they decide - not our kuleana. However, along side of their decisions they also work with what laws the Kingdom of Hawaii has utilized; whatever it may be as it is now.

This would be an impact of change but in my opinion, pono.

Please continue this discussion and share your continued mana'o on this...MAHALO to those that have so far contributed to this discussion. We need to talk about facts and draw conclusions to this already and this area is a start to entertain this area of concern.
BTW..if you are mixed, it doesn't matter. The same key markers will show up in you as well. They did a study tracing mans origin from Europe to 5 main tribes all over the world, this was before any of us polynesians existed.
How come we have to be 'ruled over' by a socially stratifying system that seeks to oppress its inhabitants for no really good reason. Individual self sufficiency is close to, if not already available but out of the common persons financial wherewithal. However, to understand that one has to consider the current infrastructure and how it perpetuates itself artificially. Why can't we live together as equals instead of pointing out our differences... especially since we're all claiming the common bond of Maoli or Hawaiian. Isn't it ironic that the one common bond that keeps us all connected to Hawaii is probably the one bond responsible for keeping us separated. Aiwaiwa, no?

Love, peace, and chicken grease.
lol...they wouldn't rule over anyone...it's what you want..like the monarchy of England and Japan doesn't rule over their country. They could just be a committee...all in line with what the Hawaiian Kingdom laws says. For sake of genealogy they could be a round table of what works for today or not have any authority like the days of old. What this references to is...a clear genealogical records of who's who for the sake of others who trash each other claiming they are royalty...it's whatever you want to make it...here we have a discussion as to how and why or not....we're thinking out of the box Maika it doesn't mean one is better than the other...SMILE Unity has to still come to be and it is not forgotten...SMILE.
That was the purpose of the Royal Order of Kamehameha which was established by Lot Kamehameha that still exists today. There is the original and one that separated from it and became a corporation body. There are also Royal societies that must declare their lineage and are recognized by their members, and of course there are descendants that don't subscribe to all those orders and societies as bing clubhouse Hawaiians. So, there you have it; a potpourri of societies that have maintained their genealogies. The rank of Hawaiian ali'i is based on the mana inherited and that is why it's important to know who's the mother and who's the father. That will determine the rank of ali'i and not just that one descends from one ali'i. The mana is diluted. The Hawaiian system differs from the British/European and Asian/Jpanese system. One cannot compare the Hawaiian system with those. If you go back in their history, it does stem from warlords and have nothing to do with the mana. The only similarities is that they married within their own family to keep the power and genes within their own family. The U.S. and other countries have the same system except they call them Presidents, Chairmen, or dictators. All semantics! Today, we learned to live without the ali'i; why try to bring them back if one cannot be loyal to a long-termed rule even with a democratic system within it as the constitutional monarchy?

The true purpose to know that you descend from ali'i in one form or another is to live in a pono way as your ancestor and preserve that reputation in keeping them alive as someone whom you represent in today's society and not tarnish their names whom you descend from and honor. Let's not forget that and live our lives to the fullest and with kuleana pono'i.

Tane
Mahalo Uncle Tane...I love your last paragraph. Funny that you mention this as a few months ago myself, one of my sisters & a cousin were approached to be members of the Ka'ahumanu Society by another cousin of ours - we're the next generation. It was an honor and privilege to discuss our women of the past and their contribution and efforts of the society. The best treat ever was a story of one of our tutus whom we never met - we are going to view her black holoku which is in mint condition and is a little over 100 years old...we are looking forward to this before the end of the year...we all got a chicken skin moment around the stories from this...AWESOME! And I'll end with your last paragraph because of our stories provided to us that day...

The true purpose to know that you descend from ali'i in one form or another is to live in a pono way as your ancestor and preserve that reputation in keeping them alive as someone whom you represent in today's society and not tarnish their names whom you descend from and honor. Let's not forget that and live our lives to the fullest and with kuleana pono'i.
Interesting thought. The possible problem is it may reinforce the concept of a "blood quantum" being necessary to qualify for dis 'n dat. I am not Hawaiian, so this is ha'ole manao.

The problem with any "blood quantum" is that in time no one will be able to meet the standard. By analogy look at land title.

When the palapala sila nui was initially granted, the first ohana owned 100 percent of the land deeded to them. Fast forward 150 years and the descendants own a 2 percent interest, if they're lucky! With each passing generation the percentage gets smaller.

But for thousands of years the Kanaka Maoli have known who they are. Keep it that way! Yes it is increasingly difficult, especially online, but you will always know...without DNA !

Always thought da surfachick might be lolo.
Mahalo for your mana'o J.D'Alba...but the sake of this discussion of genealogy and DNA, it would have nothing to do with blood quantim you are either from the royal ties or you are not. Markers can tell you how closely related you could be no matter paternal or maternal. So it can be done if it comes to that level of degree of proof for the hawaiian kingdom if it was needed.
I was one who listened to the kupuna talk all the time as a kid and paid attention. Though they never spoke about DNA they did have a concept of characteristics that can be seen in a descendant of the great chiefs of old. They would use the term "kanaka makua" but most often "pulapula" to signify that a characteristic has been shown from an ancient ali'i or his/her lineage. I was always taught to represent the family and was instructed how to walk, talk, and act. Lokahi was a concept of balance, physical, mental, spiritual and kuleana and aloha is something taught from as far back as I can remember. I'm not trying to emply that I'm anything special, cause I not, but I do believe that you should be able to tell and feel the mana of the ali'i as it can be trangenerational. Good teaching to keiki continue even to this day in many of these ali'i families. There are those who can talk a talk but the 'ano or essence of them tells a different story. Then there are those who says a little but tells a lot, and the mana is made known the only way it can. You can't fake mana. It is felt and recognized by all those who nurtures it. I believe we all come from ali'i lines, but some forgot how they're connected and some may have the mo'o but forgot how to act like one. To be recognized as an ali'i today, you gotta be as such, not act, but be. We all know the sacred kuleana of the ali'i. I don't care if they come from Kamehamea or Keouakuahuula, if they the real deal, they got my vote. That's my mana'o.

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