Posted by Tane on August 20, 2009 at 3:50pm in Politics
I wrote this many years ago and feel it's apropos today:
UNDERSTANDING WESTERN CONCEPTS
by Tane
The Papal Bulls established the framework of Western concept regarding
non-white civilizations. John Calvin, a Frenchman, developed it further on a
religious level as he broke away from Catholicism concepts and merged the
doctrines to fit the predestination and personally interpreted the bibled to fit
his values and concepts. Throughout Europe, many subscribed to his version
of Christianity which made its way over to the British colonies in America.
This renegade set of christian ideals recreated their creed to establish the
WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) society which today still represents
the United States of America.
The right of conquest afforded to Christians, stemmed from the Old Testament;
whereby, the Jewish people who declared they were the chosen people by God,
fell out of favor with Him. The Christians picked up the banner and justified it with
the New Testament. It was in the Middle East that Christianity began to flourish
and soon spread throughout the "civilized" countries of that time. Europe was still
on the edges of civilization, living in mud huts along the rivers as barbaric heathens.
Pope Urban II sent out his edict in 1095, Papal Bull Terra Nullius, land of no
consequences, empty of human habitation belonging to no one. This meant that
Christians were given the right of discovery and could claim land in non-Christian
areas; even as Europe, itself, was dotted with principalities and tribes at that time.
The inhabitants were deemed subhuman and not civilized by their standards; thus
had no nation to recognize as similar to theirs.
In 1452, Pope Nicholas V sent out the Papal Bull Romanus Pontifex, that stated
these barbaric, non-Christians needed to be converted and civilized according to
their standards. In essence, they could occupy the land but have no rights since it
is God-given only to Christians. The natives on the land could be put in perpetual
slavery; the monarchs convert them and use them as they wish; and make profit off
of them, since they were considered property and their possession.
In 1452, the Dum Diversas, issued by Pope Nicholas V , empowered King Alfonso V
of Portugal to shackle any Muslims, pagans and any other unbelievers to perpetual
slavery, which began with the slave trade in West Africa.
Pope Alexander VI issued Papal Bull Inter Caetera in 1493, the Doctrine of Conquest.
This justified waging war on all non-Christians; a jure belli, a just war blessed by God,
a jihad/crusade of which gave legitimacy of Christian domination over pagans, sanctifying
enslavement, and dispossession of property.
It wasn't until 29 May 1537 when Pope Paul III wrote his Papal Bull Sublimus Dei, that
he declared "indians" and all other people later discovered by Christians were truly men
and real humans. Probably as an attempt to reverse the mindset established by the
previous Bulls which formulated the doctrine of Manifest Destiny.
Between 1712 through to 1914 (the end of the Age of Liberalism), the formation of
nation-states in Europe developed and rose to great powers. Adoptions of Asian/Middle
East civilizations by Europeans fortified their growth. Europe commonly accepted the
right to discovery of countries unknown to all Christian people and no other "member"
could interfere in their conquest of the globe. The USA and Europe asserted the
ultimate dominion to be in themselves and acknowledged the rights of "natives"
as occupants.
The aberrant-thinking John Calvin built his presbtery on a democratic foundation where
people were to choose; but the ministers chosen, were to rule. Calvin's reformed theology
is either God is not omnipotent or man is not self-determinate; thus accepting the
conclusion adverse to liberty. He also stated that faith alone is salvation - it is Divine
Predestination. "Some men are born devoted from the womb to certain death, that His
(God's) name may be glorified". That means, only certain Christians are destined to go to
heaven; supplanting public teachings of centuries past.
He omits Christian history to interpret the bible by relying on the "internal persuasion" of the
Holy Spirit as he sees it. The Bible is a given; it is by "decree" of God that events come to
pass which no reason can be given. He further claims, God's will, fixes an absolute order;
physical, ethical, religions, never to be modified by anything we can attempt. Heathen virtue
is but apparent and that of non-Christians merely "political" or secular; which goes to say,
that converted Christian "natives" will never get to heaven.
Common-natured civilization is external only and justice or benevolence have no intrinsic
value or no supernatural value. "All the works of unbelievers are sinful and the virtues of the
philosophers are vices". Calvin goes on to say, impulse and enticement are all the will that
we have. Thus the printed Bible is declared all-sufficient to the mind which the Spirit was
guiding; justification by faith alone, the Bible only, as the rule of faith. Those that subscribed
to Calvinism were also Presbytery, Quakers, and Puritans (in the spirit of Jewish legalism).
Conjoin both the Papal Bulls and Calvinism and you get Manifest Destiny that cradles the
US American/Euro form of capitalism and ethics. There is no guilt or remorse in this line of
thinking. This is the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) society and culture that US
America takes pride in and force-educates its citizens to uphold. Europe is based on the
same foundation to various degees within its territories and possessions. Colonialism and
racism are imbued in their thinking who live and survive within that nefarious box. Don't you
think it's time to break that box and destroy it forever?
You need to be a member of maoliworld to add comments!
Hawaiians had a deeper understanding of Akua. They believed in all aspects of Akua - the aina and what grew and lived in it, the ocean and what grew and lived in it, the wind, the rain and all of nature, They were connected to Akua. I grew up in a Christian home. I grew up fearing God and yet was thought that God is love - such a dichotomy. As I grew up I began to realize that something was not quite right. I read the bible religiously and began to see inconsistencies in what I was being thought and what I was reading. There were inconsistencies in the bible itself which no one would give me an answer to. I was told that I should not question the bible because it was the word of God. I decided to read up on the history of the bible and church and was astounded at what I found. Politics and power is what led to the canonization of the bible. Politics and power is what interpreted God's word. The bible was used as a tool to undermine groups of people, to execute people for other beliefs, to cleanse the world of heathens (anyone who did not believe as the church did), to go to war, to keep the poor poor, to discriminate against different races - all in the name of God. The institution of the early church, not God, divided people. It also, as you say, created the attitude of manifest destiny - we are better and therefore we should have it all.
When I consider that more than 2000 years have past since the coming of Jesus and we have yet to get the message (the true message) I wonder if we ever will. How many have actually read the books that did not become part of the bible as we know it today? How many know why some writings were chosen and others not? It wasn't because God inspired them. They got into heated arguments and in the end it was politics that decided. How many know that there are 11, not 10 commandments? How many know that the gospel of John almost did not become part of the bible? Yes,11 commandments - the last was given by Jesus himself and it was a commandment that Hawaiians know well because they live it. Jesus said he was giving a new commandment, that you love one another because this is greater than all commandments (not an exact quote). Hawaiians know this as Aloha.
I did not mean to get into a discussion of religion and I do not mean to demean anyone's faith. My faith in Akua is still strong but I see Akua differently from when I was a child. It is not our belief in God but rather how man has used God for purposes other than one of benevolence. The worst is one of dominance over other people and the destruction of cultures that don't fit their mold. Hawaii is a great example of what happens when man uses the attitude of manifest destiny supposedly given them by God - the idea of a chosen people.
I apologize if got off the subject and if I offended anyone. These are my thoughts and it is okay not to agree with them.
Sorry Tane this is in not disrepect to you, it was difficult to open this file and read your original post and read about 'pets' and have to read responders to 'pets'. In disregard to what is going on with August 21, 2009 is how I saw it. I apologize Tane but your original posting was important for today's event, your posting was in preparations for an important understanding as to why people are protesting today. Every word was important for the post period of today and the Akaka Bill.
"This disingenuous behavior was most offensive"
"One of the most offensive was the broad use of indigenous."
"The inhabitants were deemed subhuman and not civilized by their standards; thus had no nation to recognize as similar to theirs."
"The root word is indigen which means poor, inferior, in need. Indigenous refers plants and animals belonging naturally to a place or region."
"Inherent rights is the colonial verbage to mean inherent rights as indigenous people versus national rights and privileges."
"I have a stronger standing as a Hawaii national, Hawaiian Subject, or Hawaiian citizen rather than a native Hawaiian. It's a play on words; semantics and what it connotes."
"Common sense tells one this is sheer folly and deceitful in playing with words."
This is Tane's second posting:
"I couldn't help but think that this demonstrates the doctrines of manifest destiny borne out of the Papal Bulls and how this mentality is still stuck within the European culture that permeates throughout the world in their colonized countries, including the U.S.A."
"The next time you look at your pet animal, think of western concepts and how they regard
non-whites and their culture with superiority. Do you perceive yourself in the same way and why?
Did you buy into the doctrines openly or was it subliminal indoctrination?
View yourself as the pet and see if you can identify the similarities."
Responders comments:
Tane
"You brought a tear to my eye, Not a day goes by that I dont miss my dog."
"Uncle Tane, with every word you posted in this discussion and with every question you bring to mind I understand your thinking and appreciate you speaking so eloquently of our situation and the truth of "the matter".
Tane Wrote:
Aloha Stephanie and Sharon:
"I know how you both feel; I've had a few dogs in my life. The purpose for western concepts was to try to understand where these people are coming from in their behavior. Many don't realize why they feel that way or cannot see it and don't think they exhibit that mentality which can be easy to fall into. This makes us more forgiving in their blind actions. Many don't realize they do it because they live in their culture as we are pushed into. I'm so happy my kupuna had a sense of mind to take it individually and embrace these lolos. Funny how we don't look at color and prejudge; we wait until they do something irrespectful; by then they deserve what they get. Corporations are different as they try to rip off everyone and don't care about race except that they can weasel money our of everybody. LOL...."
"Yes Uncle it is prevalent no matter where you turn your head on the global aspect. Sometimes I wonder if this is prophecy of some religion these "corporate thinking money making we do for our kine and our families first and pee on the little guys" have a take on. Or is it just complete EVIL and destruction we are heading to because of our evolvement now being globally infectious in this Manifest Destiny."
Again Tane my utmost apology, I got lost in what you were saying which is important, than I went to the respondents. I did not see any relation to what you were saying and the respondents posting in my quick reading. I said that I will return back and reread their posting again and in response to what you said.
I still feel that on this important day or days previous to this day with so much tention among "true activist" I could not get 'in response' to the 'love of pet thing and indigenious and our people their culture and practices.
I felt that their was boredom in time of need-- by the respondents. There was clear intent on the part of the respondents to clutter up this forum, thus, blocking people like myself from responding to your posting.
As I am typing I am listening to the panelist at the Hawaii Convention Center. Tani all your words were important and up until this moment. I say this not as a new comer to the movement, but an old timer. In 1974 we the few women that dared to question our 'bucket' conditions. We told them about the ceded lands and it's revenues, but we were short sighted in our need of time. We also knew we had to reach beyond ourselves in 1978 on the last night of the Constitutional Convention actions.
Unfortunately, some women (responders) insisted upon death! Through out the years of being an 'activist' I could never understand this mentality. This evening matches the eve of 1978 Constitutional Convention.
These are some of the words that are being said, "extinguish," and at this moment the panel is slipping into tools, process of policy, Oswald Stender is talking about the world moral authority supports the Akaka Bill. Jon Osario, 200,000 acress....stolen UN and small Communities have the right to independance.
Hawaii Convention Center has the same arguments I heard post 1978 Constitutional Convention, same stupid lolo women too, just different persons with different clothing in a different period of time.
Which what I think Tane was speaking to "the stupidity in between the pala pala and the indoctrination of US." my words not Tani. Trisha and Saffery speaks to this clearly because they come from that mentality.
The same players that we had post 1978 Constitutional Convention and the same disappointing outcome.
"Fifty good for nothing years" not again! Kaohi--Waianae
My grand tutu man fed 'dog' to the missionary scroundrels and they all cried wolf, wolf all the way home! They put on their sheeps clothing, and went baa baa to Hawaiian Nationals for the next two hundred years of colonialism.
The baa baa question is are we going to give to our children a trail of wolf/sheep missionary droppings?
From what I read responding to Tani's post, which I promise to re-read as soon as I get over my shock--that the sheepish sly fox in the hen house cried wee wee all the pork home.
I'm a cut of the missionary cloth, I shop at Petco, I take my grandchildren to the zoo, we even swim with the fishes in the sea.
Tani wrote: "One of the most offensive was the broad use of indigenous. In the manifest destiny jargon and colonialist vernacular, the term indigenous refers to non-caucasian, non-Christian, sub-human unintelligent people whom they are superior to as ordained by almighty God. In the U.S.A, this is an unspoken doctrine carried over by their European roots under which they live and has been a struggle since its existence, primarily between the "Black" people and the "White" people."
This is different from "Dogs in Heaven" my favorite is "The Aristocats" so I like cats. I tell my students all the time, I'm not going to be here because I'm going to cat land' and you'er going to be dealing with the problems--so pay attention.
Tani wrote, "The inhabitants were deemed subhuman and not civilized by their standards; thus had no nation to recognize as similar to theirs."
To the responders--I like going to mass to pray for all animals, my grandchildren are catholics (I'm a protestant). We are talking about NATION for earths inhabitants---not PETCO pets. There are no similarities between Nationals and Koi as in swimming fish.
Tani wrote: "The Hawaiian Kingdom was recognized by over 25 countries, became part of the Family of Nations, thus received external sovereignty as a sovereign independent nation-state. The relationship is nation to nation as a peer among all participating nations. All had consuls and legations in each others country. With that said, it's fraudulent to state that to give native Hawaiian the status like the native Americans as indigenous native Americans as a step up and recognition as such."
To the responders--I want to recognize that I have two good looking pair of legs and 'Ku Kanaka' comes to mind. I don't want to bend over for no other nation-- is my point. My butt hole is an outi not an inni!
At this moment people are preparing for a march from Ala Moana to Atkinsin(son) drive and on to the Convention Center to unvail a postage stamp, which you could purchase today. I'm told it has a surfer and two people in an out rigger canoe. My father's first name is Kanaka, when white people call my dad by his first name they mean 'nigger.' Show me a person born in the 20s with a first name Kanaka.
So, why was dad named 'Kanaka' my grandfather was not stupid, he named my dad after a natural boundary line from mountain to sea. From the temple of Lono to the temple of Ku and Hina this natural boundary line exist all the way out to it's lena.
Responders--I say, this is not about the 'leash law' for Kanaka's although the Akaka Bill comes to mind.
Tani wrote: "If you had listened to the hearing for the Akaka Bill, listen to the use of the words. They give and take away our status in one breath and interchange the definition and meanings erroneously as if they are saying the same thing. Re-organization of the Hawaiian Government? Under whose authority do they usurp the already existing Hawaiian Kingdom to supplant with a U.S. American tribal club governing entity? Where do they get the jurisdiction to negotiate the Hawaiian Kingdom's assets and authority using a U.S. tribal governing entity? Common sense tells one this is sheer folly and deceitful in playing with words."
In blunt disrespect to the responders, Department of Hawaiian Homeland will be renamed again should the Akaka Bill Pass!!! As in Department of Kanaka Zooland, so-- their has to be a distinction between Hawaiian Nationals and Zoo Keepers. An understanding as to not one in the same in our gray matter.
Tani-- I promise I will reread the responders again and your postings to comprehend free and goodwill.
Here you go again Kaohi picking on your words, "Responders". Uncle Tane originally posted his discussion before you were even a member here. He says this at the beginning of his post. And I responded then and did so again. The dog story is another story we commented on which Uncle Tane responded to Sharon and I.
Your analogy of our perspective is taken out of contents. I'm not grouping the two together in my response and I'm sure Sharon is not doing the same. Uncle Tane makes mention of HIS own analogy...are you disrespecting a Kupuna based on their writings here? I only say this for sake of my post discussion because I know Uncle Tane can answer that for himself if he wants.
Go opihi picking instead of picking on us here on our discussion. Yeah comprehend you need to do...geesh!
Hey Steph;
First e kala mai to Tane, for saying what I am about to say. Opihi is hard to get. I can consider something else to go pick, but I am too much of a lady to say it. I have never met you Kaohi and you know what I dont think I ever want to. Papa had a saying, you were still in diapers, when we were dealing with life. So with that get a life. How much are you getting paid to spy on forums for you know who? So you can diss, something that is so simple. A simple forum, turned into a dog fight hahaha. Again get a life. Again my apologies to Tane. Mahalo for the time
Sharon
I know how you both feel; I've had a few dogs in my life. The purpose for western concepts was to try to understand where these people are coming from in their behavior. Many don't realize why they feel that way or cannot see it and don't think they exhibit that mentality which can be easy to fall into. This makes us more forgiving in their blind actions. Many don't realize they do it because they live in their culture as we are pushed into. I'm so happy my kupuna had a sense of mind to take it individually and embrace these lolos. Funny how we don't look at color and prejudge; we wait until they do something irrespectful; by then they deserve what they get. Corporations are different as they try to rip off everyone and don't care about race except that they can weasel money our of everybody. LOL....
I grew up when racism was more pronounced than it is today; but it's still there in their society. The government's policies still support racism or white superiority because they are controlled by the corporations who divides and conquers. It's because the U.S. people's hang up on race that turns me off to that country despite the family and friend I have that come from that culture. Manifest Destiny is still the cancer in the Anglo/ Euro/ American world. They have a difficult time ridding themselves of this archaic doctrine. But this is the source of their mindset that has been imbued in them since the 11-12th century. It pains me when our own people get caught up in that school of thought because it's not part of our culture and society; but it IS part of the U.S. WASP mainstream society. It was that mentality that made them invade and occupy our country as they do in other countries not like them.The U.S. still has a long way to go to reverse that concept.
Yes Uncle it is prevalent no matter where you turn your head on the global aspect. Sometimes I wonder if this is prophecy of some religion these "corporate thinking money making we do for our kine and our families first and pee on the little guys" have a take on. Or is it just complete EVIL and destruction we are heading to because of our evolvement now being globally infectious in this Manifest Destiny.
We can empower ourselves to be more self reliant the best we can when it all crumbles for restoration. I still say that "somethings gotta give" under the pressures we have...where does it fall from to rebuild as it seems we're waiting for it. Meaning if we need to rebuild our nation; noting also it never left us really its been here for us all this time, doesn't it descriptively make a picture of something/some entity like the State of Hawaii falling to its knees? I'm waiting for it to happen, I see it descriptively in what is happening in our economy and maybe this is the start of something better even though people are suffering from the results right now. Aside form that some legal moves need to be made as well.
Mahalo as always for your valuable contribution to Maoliworld
Uncle Tane, with every word you posted in this discussion and with every question you bring to mind I understand your thinking and appreciate you speaking so eloquently of our situation and the truth of "the matter". I've already picked up my jaw off the floor too many times with what is happening. I close em now and just shake my head "malakas kine" (meaning descriptively...how stupid are they to think we're stupid; Malakas=stupid or brainless in greek). Something's gotta give I say and I get numb all the time because I'm done being shocked; the numbness is the shell or armour I create to protect my heart and soul of what is happening. It doesn't stop me from doing my calling in what I do, but it doesn't make me take a step back but instead make me stand still for awhile, listen, then move forward.
Mahalo for sharing your mana'o always.......Anesthetized here in Kohala - my play on words...
A friend sent the e-email to me about A Great Dog and A Pet's Ten Commandments that I had to share it with you. I couldn't help but think that this demonstrates the doctrines of manifest destiny borne out of the Papal Bulls and how this mentality is still stuck within the European culture that permeates throughout the world in their colonized countries, including the U.S.A.
The next time you look at your pet animal, think of western concepts and how they regard
non-whites and their culture with superiority. Do you perceive yourself in the same way and why?
Did you buy into the doctrines openly or was it subliminal indoctrination?
View yourself as the pet and see if you can identify the similarities.
What A Dog! This is a MUST read !!!!!!!!!
Thought everyone should know about this dog and his story.
Especially like the ending ......
A Pets Ten Commandments.......... Be sure to read them. #10 is a choker!
My kind of dog!
The K9 above is Brutus, a military K9 at McChord.
He's huge - part Boxer and part British Bull Mastiff and tops the scales at 200 lbs. His handler took the picture. Brutus is running toward me because he knows I have some Milk Bone treats, so he's slobbering away! I had to duck around a tree just before he got to me in case he couldn't stop, but he did. Brutus won the Congressional Medal of Honor last year from his tour in Iraq . His handler and four other soldiers were taken hostage by insurgents. Brutus and his handler communicate by sign language and he gave Brutus the signal that meant 'go away but come back and find me'. The Iraqis paid no attention to Brutus. He came back later and quietly tore the throat out of one guard at one door and another guard at another door. He then jumped against one of the doors repeatedly (the guys were being held in an old warehouse) until it opened. He went in and untied his handler and they all escaped. He's the first K9 to receive this honor. If he knows you're okay, he's a big old lug and wants to sit in your lap. Enjoys the company of cats.
K-9 Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
Thought you'd find this interesting.
Talk about animal intelligence and bonding with humans!
Remember that they can't do a lot of things for themselves and that they depend on you
to make their life a quality life!
A PET'S TEN COMMANDMENTS.........
1. My life is likely to last 10-15 years. Any separation from you is likely to be painful.
2. Give me time to understand what you want of me
3. Place your trust in me. It is crucial for my well-being.
4. Don't be angry with me for long and don't lock me up as punishment. You have your work, your friends,
your entertainment, but I have only you.
5. Talk to me. Even if I don't understand your words, I do understand your voice when speaking to me.
6. Be aware that however you treat me, I will never forget it.
7. Before you hit me, before you strike me, remember that I could hurt you, and yet, I choose not to bite you.
8. Before you scold me for being lazy or uncooperative, ask yourself if something might be bothering me.
Perhaps I'm not getting the right food, I have been in the sun too long, or my heart might be getting old or weak.
9. Please take care of me when I grow old. You too, will grow old.
10. On the ultimate difficult journey, go with me please. Never say you can't bear to watch.
Don't make me face this alone. Everything is easier for me if you are there, because I love you so.
~Take a moment today to thank God for your pets.. Enjoy and take good care of them.
Life would be a much duller, less joyful experience without God's critters.
~Now please pass this on to other pet owners. We do not have to wait for Heaven,
to be surrounded by hope, love, and joyfulness. It is here on earth and has four legs!
[or,....two?]
I had to "exhale" big time on the commandments. Reminded me immediately to memory what my dad had to do in the end with our family's pure german shepherd in order to give him peace. He was so loyal to our family since the mid 60's, disliked hippies or long haired individuals; but loyal to my dad who kept a que and one who controlled him in tone and speech. He may have not looked typically huge as he was a runt out of the litter but he had some power - he dragged my momona body around our hale when I had to tend to him daily as a child.
Mikey was awesome. I cried when I saw my dad cry; one who doesn't cry easily - which I follow after his character LOL Mahalo for sharing as always...SMILE.
Replies
Hawaiians had a deeper understanding of Akua. They believed in all aspects of Akua - the aina and what grew and lived in it, the ocean and what grew and lived in it, the wind, the rain and all of nature, They were connected to Akua. I grew up in a Christian home. I grew up fearing God and yet was thought that God is love - such a dichotomy. As I grew up I began to realize that something was not quite right. I read the bible religiously and began to see inconsistencies in what I was being thought and what I was reading. There were inconsistencies in the bible itself which no one would give me an answer to. I was told that I should not question the bible because it was the word of God. I decided to read up on the history of the bible and church and was astounded at what I found. Politics and power is what led to the canonization of the bible. Politics and power is what interpreted God's word. The bible was used as a tool to undermine groups of people, to execute people for other beliefs, to cleanse the world of heathens (anyone who did not believe as the church did), to go to war, to keep the poor poor, to discriminate against different races - all in the name of God. The institution of the early church, not God, divided people. It also, as you say, created the attitude of manifest destiny - we are better and therefore we should have it all.
When I consider that more than 2000 years have past since the coming of Jesus and we have yet to get the message (the true message) I wonder if we ever will. How many have actually read the books that did not become part of the bible as we know it today? How many know why some writings were chosen and others not? It wasn't because God inspired them. They got into heated arguments and in the end it was politics that decided. How many know that there are 11, not 10 commandments? How many know that the gospel of John almost did not become part of the bible? Yes,11 commandments - the last was given by Jesus himself and it was a commandment that Hawaiians know well because they live it. Jesus said he was giving a new commandment, that you love one another because this is greater than all commandments (not an exact quote). Hawaiians know this as Aloha.
I did not mean to get into a discussion of religion and I do not mean to demean anyone's faith. My faith in Akua is still strong but I see Akua differently from when I was a child. It is not our belief in God but rather how man has used God for purposes other than one of benevolence. The worst is one of dominance over other people and the destruction of cultures that don't fit their mold. Hawaii is a great example of what happens when man uses the attitude of manifest destiny supposedly given them by God - the idea of a chosen people.
I apologize if got off the subject and if I offended anyone. These are my thoughts and it is okay not to agree with them.
Aloha ke Akua,
Nohealani
"This disingenuous behavior was most offensive"
"One of the most offensive was the broad use of indigenous."
"The inhabitants were deemed subhuman and not civilized by their standards; thus had no nation to recognize as similar to theirs."
"The root word is indigen which means poor, inferior, in need. Indigenous refers plants and animals belonging naturally to a place or region."
"Inherent rights is the colonial verbage to mean inherent rights as indigenous people versus national rights and privileges."
"I have a stronger standing as a Hawaii national, Hawaiian Subject, or Hawaiian citizen rather than a native Hawaiian. It's a play on words; semantics and what it connotes."
"Common sense tells one this is sheer folly and deceitful in playing with words."
This is Tane's second posting:
"I couldn't help but think that this demonstrates the doctrines of manifest destiny borne out of the Papal Bulls and how this mentality is still stuck within the European culture that permeates throughout the world in their colonized countries, including the U.S.A."
"The next time you look at your pet animal, think of western concepts and how they regard
non-whites and their culture with superiority. Do you perceive yourself in the same way and why?
Did you buy into the doctrines openly or was it subliminal indoctrination?
View yourself as the pet and see if you can identify the similarities."
Responders comments:
Tane
"You brought a tear to my eye, Not a day goes by that I dont miss my dog."
"Uncle Tane, with every word you posted in this discussion and with every question you bring to mind I understand your thinking and appreciate you speaking so eloquently of our situation and the truth of "the matter".
Tane Wrote:
Aloha Stephanie and Sharon:
"I know how you both feel; I've had a few dogs in my life. The purpose for western concepts was to try to understand where these people are coming from in their behavior. Many don't realize why they feel that way or cannot see it and don't think they exhibit that mentality which can be easy to fall into. This makes us more forgiving in their blind actions. Many don't realize they do it because they live in their culture as we are pushed into. I'm so happy my kupuna had a sense of mind to take it individually and embrace these lolos. Funny how we don't look at color and prejudge; we wait until they do something irrespectful; by then they deserve what they get. Corporations are different as they try to rip off everyone and don't care about race except that they can weasel money our of everybody. LOL...."
"Yes Uncle it is prevalent no matter where you turn your head on the global aspect. Sometimes I wonder if this is prophecy of some religion these "corporate thinking money making we do for our kine and our families first and pee on the little guys" have a take on. Or is it just complete EVIL and destruction we are heading to because of our evolvement now being globally infectious in this Manifest Destiny."
Again Tane my utmost apology, I got lost in what you were saying which is important, than I went to the respondents. I did not see any relation to what you were saying and the respondents posting in my quick reading. I said that I will return back and reread their posting again and in response to what you said.
I still feel that on this important day or days previous to this day with so much tention among "true activist" I could not get 'in response' to the 'love of pet thing and indigenious and our people their culture and practices.
I felt that their was boredom in time of need-- by the respondents. There was clear intent on the part of the respondents to clutter up this forum, thus, blocking people like myself from responding to your posting.
As I am typing I am listening to the panelist at the Hawaii Convention Center. Tani all your words were important and up until this moment. I say this not as a new comer to the movement, but an old timer. In 1974 we the few women that dared to question our 'bucket' conditions. We told them about the ceded lands and it's revenues, but we were short sighted in our need of time. We also knew we had to reach beyond ourselves in 1978 on the last night of the Constitutional Convention actions.
Unfortunately, some women (responders) insisted upon death! Through out the years of being an 'activist' I could never understand this mentality. This evening matches the eve of 1978 Constitutional Convention.
These are some of the words that are being said, "extinguish," and at this moment the panel is slipping into tools, process of policy, Oswald Stender is talking about the world moral authority supports the Akaka Bill. Jon Osario, 200,000 acress....stolen UN and small Communities have the right to independance.
Hawaii Convention Center has the same arguments I heard post 1978 Constitutional Convention, same stupid lolo women too, just different persons with different clothing in a different period of time.
Which what I think Tane was speaking to "the stupidity in between the pala pala and the indoctrination of US." my words not Tani. Trisha and Saffery speaks to this clearly because they come from that mentality.
The same players that we had post 1978 Constitutional Convention and the same disappointing outcome.
"Fifty good for nothing years" not again! Kaohi--Waianae
My grand tutu man fed 'dog' to the missionary scroundrels and they all cried wolf, wolf all the way home! They put on their sheeps clothing, and went baa baa to Hawaiian Nationals for the next two hundred years of colonialism.
The baa baa question is are we going to give to our children a trail of wolf/sheep missionary droppings?
From what I read responding to Tani's post, which I promise to re-read as soon as I get over my shock--that the sheepish sly fox in the hen house cried wee wee all the pork home.
I'm a cut of the missionary cloth, I shop at Petco, I take my grandchildren to the zoo, we even swim with the fishes in the sea.
Tani wrote: "One of the most offensive was the broad use of indigenous. In the manifest destiny jargon and colonialist vernacular, the term indigenous refers to non-caucasian, non-Christian, sub-human unintelligent people whom they are superior to as ordained by almighty God. In the U.S.A, this is an unspoken doctrine carried over by their European roots under which they live and has been a struggle since its existence, primarily between the "Black" people and the "White" people."
This is different from "Dogs in Heaven" my favorite is "The Aristocats" so I like cats. I tell my students all the time, I'm not going to be here because I'm going to cat land' and you'er going to be dealing with the problems--so pay attention.
Tani wrote, "The inhabitants were deemed subhuman and not civilized by their standards; thus had no nation to recognize as similar to theirs."
To the responders--I like going to mass to pray for all animals, my grandchildren are catholics (I'm a protestant). We are talking about NATION for earths inhabitants---not PETCO pets. There are no similarities between Nationals and Koi as in swimming fish.
Tani wrote: "The Hawaiian Kingdom was recognized by over 25 countries, became part of the Family of Nations, thus received external sovereignty as a sovereign independent nation-state. The relationship is nation to nation as a peer among all participating nations. All had consuls and legations in each others country. With that said, it's fraudulent to state that to give native Hawaiian the status like the native Americans as indigenous native Americans as a step up and recognition as such."
To the responders--I want to recognize that I have two good looking pair of legs and 'Ku Kanaka' comes to mind. I don't want to bend over for no other nation-- is my point. My butt hole is an outi not an inni!
At this moment people are preparing for a march from Ala Moana to Atkinsin(son) drive and on to the Convention Center to unvail a postage stamp, which you could purchase today. I'm told it has a surfer and two people in an out rigger canoe. My father's first name is Kanaka, when white people call my dad by his first name they mean 'nigger.' Show me a person born in the 20s with a first name Kanaka.
So, why was dad named 'Kanaka' my grandfather was not stupid, he named my dad after a natural boundary line from mountain to sea. From the temple of Lono to the temple of Ku and Hina this natural boundary line exist all the way out to it's lena.
Responders--I say, this is not about the 'leash law' for Kanaka's although the Akaka Bill comes to mind.
Tani wrote: "If you had listened to the hearing for the Akaka Bill, listen to the use of the words. They give and take away our status in one breath and interchange the definition and meanings erroneously as if they are saying the same thing. Re-organization of the Hawaiian Government? Under whose authority do they usurp the already existing Hawaiian Kingdom to supplant with a U.S. American tribal club governing entity? Where do they get the jurisdiction to negotiate the Hawaiian Kingdom's assets and authority using a U.S. tribal governing entity? Common sense tells one this is sheer folly and deceitful in playing with words."
In blunt disrespect to the responders, Department of Hawaiian Homeland will be renamed again should the Akaka Bill Pass!!! As in Department of Kanaka Zooland, so-- their has to be a distinction between Hawaiian Nationals and Zoo Keepers. An understanding as to not one in the same in our gray matter.
Tani-- I promise I will reread the responders again and your postings to comprehend free and goodwill.
I really don't have an ending.
Kaohi
Your analogy of our perspective is taken out of contents. I'm not grouping the two together in my response and I'm sure Sharon is not doing the same. Uncle Tane makes mention of HIS own analogy...are you disrespecting a Kupuna based on their writings here? I only say this for sake of my post discussion because I know Uncle Tane can answer that for himself if he wants.
Go opihi picking instead of picking on us here on our discussion. Yeah comprehend you need to do...geesh!
First e kala mai to Tane, for saying what I am about to say. Opihi is hard to get. I can consider something else to go pick, but I am too much of a lady to say it. I have never met you Kaohi and you know what I dont think I ever want to. Papa had a saying, you were still in diapers, when we were dealing with life. So with that get a life. How much are you getting paid to spy on forums for you know who? So you can diss, something that is so simple. A simple forum, turned into a dog fight hahaha. Again get a life. Again my apologies to Tane. Mahalo for the time
Sharon
I know how you both feel; I've had a few dogs in my life. The purpose for western concepts was to try to understand where these people are coming from in their behavior. Many don't realize why they feel that way or cannot see it and don't think they exhibit that mentality which can be easy to fall into. This makes us more forgiving in their blind actions. Many don't realize they do it because they live in their culture as we are pushed into. I'm so happy my kupuna had a sense of mind to take it individually and embrace these lolos. Funny how we don't look at color and prejudge; we wait until they do something irrespectful; by then they deserve what they get. Corporations are different as they try to rip off everyone and don't care about race except that they can weasel money our of everybody. LOL....
I grew up when racism was more pronounced than it is today; but it's still there in their society. The government's policies still support racism or white superiority because they are controlled by the corporations who divides and conquers. It's because the U.S. people's hang up on race that turns me off to that country despite the family and friend I have that come from that culture. Manifest Destiny is still the cancer in the Anglo/ Euro/ American world. They have a difficult time ridding themselves of this archaic doctrine. But this is the source of their mindset that has been imbued in them since the 11-12th century. It pains me when our own people get caught up in that school of thought because it's not part of our culture and society; but it IS part of the U.S. WASP mainstream society. It was that mentality that made them invade and occupy our country as they do in other countries not like them.The U.S. still has a long way to go to reverse that concept.
We can empower ourselves to be more self reliant the best we can when it all crumbles for restoration. I still say that "somethings gotta give" under the pressures we have...where does it fall from to rebuild as it seems we're waiting for it. Meaning if we need to rebuild our nation; noting also it never left us really its been here for us all this time, doesn't it descriptively make a picture of something/some entity like the State of Hawaii falling to its knees? I'm waiting for it to happen, I see it descriptively in what is happening in our economy and maybe this is the start of something better even though people are suffering from the results right now. Aside form that some legal moves need to be made as well.
Mahalo as always for your valuable contribution to Maoliworld
Mahalo for sharing your mana'o always.......Anesthetized here in Kohala - my play on words...
Aloha, Stephanie
The next time you look at your pet animal, think of western concepts and how they regard
non-whites and their culture with superiority. Do you perceive yourself in the same way and why?
Did you buy into the doctrines openly or was it subliminal indoctrination?
View yourself as the pet and see if you can identify the similarities.
What A Dog! This is a MUST read !!!!!!!!!
Thought everyone should know about this dog and his story.
Especially like the ending ......
A Pets Ten Commandments.......... Be sure to read them. #10 is a choker!
My kind of dog!
The K9 above is Brutus, a military K9 at McChord.
He's huge - part Boxer and part British Bull Mastiff and tops the scales at 200 lbs. His handler took the picture. Brutus is running toward me because he knows I have some Milk Bone treats, so he's slobbering away! I had to duck around a tree just before he got to me in case he couldn't stop, but he did. Brutus won the Congressional Medal of Honor last year from his tour in Iraq . His handler and four other soldiers were taken hostage by insurgents. Brutus and his handler communicate by sign language and he gave Brutus the signal that meant 'go away but come back and find me'. The Iraqis paid no attention to Brutus. He came back later and quietly tore the throat out of one guard at one door and another guard at another door. He then jumped against one of the doors repeatedly (the guys were being held in an old warehouse) until it opened. He went in and untied his handler and they all escaped. He's the first K9 to receive this honor. If he knows you're okay, he's a big old lug and wants to sit in your lap. Enjoys the company of cats.
K-9 Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
Thought you'd find this interesting.
Talk about animal intelligence and bonding with humans!
Remember that they can't do a lot of things for themselves and that they depend on you
to make their life a quality life!
A PET'S TEN COMMANDMENTS.........
1. My life is likely to last 10-15 years. Any separation from you is likely to be painful.
2. Give me time to understand what you want of me
3. Place your trust in me. It is crucial for my well-being.
4. Don't be angry with me for long and don't lock me up as punishment. You have your work, your friends,
your entertainment, but I have only you.
5. Talk to me. Even if I don't understand your words, I do understand your voice when speaking to me.
6. Be aware that however you treat me, I will never forget it.
7. Before you hit me, before you strike me, remember that I could hurt you, and yet, I choose not to bite you.
8. Before you scold me for being lazy or uncooperative, ask yourself if something might be bothering me.
Perhaps I'm not getting the right food, I have been in the sun too long, or my heart might be getting old or weak.
9. Please take care of me when I grow old. You too, will grow old.
10. On the ultimate difficult journey, go with me please. Never say you can't bear to watch.
Don't make me face this alone. Everything is easier for me if you are there, because I love you so.
~Take a moment today to thank God for your pets.. Enjoy and take good care of them.
Life would be a much duller, less joyful experience without God's critters.
~Now please pass this on to other pet owners. We do not have to wait for Heaven,
to be surrounded by hope, love, and joyfulness. It is here on earth and has four legs!
[or,....two?]
Mikey was awesome. I cried when I saw my dad cry; one who doesn't cry easily - which I follow after his character LOL Mahalo for sharing as always...SMILE.
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