ALOHA Kakou, e Hawaii,
Under the laws of the Hawaiian Kingdom the Crown Lands were not part of the Government Lands of the Hawaiian Kingdom. The Crown Lands were made Inalienable under the laws of the Hawaiian Kingdom.
This is why in the Organic Act of 1900 of the Territory of Hawaii that Act makes the Crown Lands Alienable. Which we know is a Fraud.
Prince Kuhio offered the Crown Lands to be the Land Base of the Hawaiian Homestead Act. At 1900 the Crown Lands were 970.000 acres of lands. Not only 200,000!
The Crown Lands under the laws of the Hawaiian Kingdom belonged to the Native Indigenous Hawaiian people. Not members of the General Public of the Hawaiian Kingdom.
Long Live The Hawaiian Kingdom, o Pomai
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ALOHA Kaua, e Guy, In the past I have never go to the FAKE State of Hawaii, OHA or the U.S. Federal government with my Hands Out for me....... I have always and will continue to support the Inherent Sovereign Right of our people. I'm not interested in being the Leader of our people. This is why with HPACH, the Hawaiian Political Action Council of Hawaii that I created in the 1984, I have never developed HPACH to be a Lead Hawaiian Governing Entity. As I believe that HPACH is just one of many Hawaiian Governming Entities. I created HPACH in 1984 to watch the actions of the OHA Trustess.
For over 20 years, I attended many of the meetings of the OHA Trustees. I've also attended and testified at many Legislative Hearings at the Capitol. Also testifying at the Federal level for the protection of the Inherent Sovereign Right of our people. I have written documents to on my pass actions. I will continue to walk that path that I've walked in the past.
Since my arrest for driving my van I now am coming out stronger as a Hawaiian National of the Hawaiian Kingdom.
I have been in the movement for over 51 years. I see "Golden Opportunities" for our people. Now is the time for our people who really want Independence to go Home. Go Home to their native country, the Hawaiian Kingdom.
Stop trying to be like the Americans and steal from the Hawaian Kingdom. As the rights of our people are deeply rooted in the laws of the Hawaiian Kingdom.
Long Live The Hawaiian Kingdom, o Pomaikaiokalani
I believe that the central element to successfully addressing this. is a large enough coming together. That is why I believe the US works to disrupt our work. The courts will have to choose between their constitution and their own compelling interests.
Will they unravel America to illegally hold Hawaii?
From my understanding of the Great Mahele and effects after it was enacted, this is what I know.
Kauikeaouli had created the Great Mahele to protect the lands from foreign invasion; thus all the lands are private. This is why the rights of native tenants was applied to all the lands. The U.S. applied its own laws to supercede the superior title Hawai'i has on its lands and seas. Many confuse the government lands with the crown lands which are separate. Crown lands should not also be confused with the monarch's personal properties which are assigned to his/her heirs collaterally or otherwise in perpetuity.
Crown lands are for the use and revenues received from such lands for the monarch in line with his/her duties and expenses. These lands are used for the monarch and his/her successor in perpetuity during their reign. Those lands cannot be sold and the rights of native tenants are also applied to those lands which includes water and ocean rights. Lana has correctly cited why it was changed. The government had seen the land diminish by the King selling the property for more money, to pay off his debts, or for collateral; and to preserve the crown lands for future monarchs, they made it impossible for the monarch to sell the crown lands in doing so to preserve it for future monarchs to use in perpetuity during their reign.
Government lands were to be used to regulate public uses of those lands and revenues were to support the government expenses and payment of salaries to those in government and those working for the government.
Here again, the rights of native tenants living on those properties were protected. Government lands benefit the general public; this also entailed regulating water rights including ocean.
It was intended that native tenants (kanaka maoli) were to have allodial title; while foreigners were to have less than allodial title (lease or fee simple). All this was restructured illegally by the U.S. Americans and redefined without superior title to the lands. The U.S. concept of land ownership usurped the superior title.
Indigenous is a colonial term that I wouldn't use as how it is defined by the U.S. Native tenants at the time of the creation of the mahele were maka'ainana kanaka maoli; some had their lands partitioned by the courts according to their homestead and land that they farmed. Some gave it back to the konohiki; while others didn't request for the partition which they could've done at a later period of time or at the request of the ali'i, government, or monarch in which they resided and farmed. This also included "submerged" lands.
Contrary to what many believe, under the laws of occupation, hostile occupiers do not automatically become Kingdom subjects; they have to naturalize. They are still U.S. citizens who are violating the laws of occupation.
Foreign residents can only attain lease or fee title to lands. In the U.S., the lands are now lease or fee and the government owns the land in allodial. There are pockets where people own their land in allodial and shouldn't be paying land taxes because allodial is supreme title below God and above all mankind.
The U.S. uses their manifest destiny doctrines in dealing with land issues and control till today; even though they may not have the lawful or legal right to do so. One cannot view this within the U.S. framework. Nonetheless, whoever has the allodial title to the land is to whom one pays land taxes or fees for its use whether leased or fee.
e Terri, In my research of the Crown Lands, I find that the Alii know that there could be an Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom with the lands going to the control of a foreign country. By making the Crown Lands Inalienable and not part of the Public Lands of the Hawaiian Kingdom, our people would have lands that belong to them in the Crown Lands. But the Organic Act of 1900 makes the Crown Lands ALIENABLE. After Queen Liliuokalani lost her bid to save the Crown Lands in her suit against the USA, I forget what president order the public selling of the Crown Lands. Much of the lands in Waikiki are Crown Lands. In the book "History and Analisisy of the Hawaiian Homes Act, they speak of the Crown Lands. In the past years at the Legislature I've tried to have the Legislature address the Crown Lands, but it is a HOT PATATOE.
e Terri, The following is from the Organic Act chapter,
§ 99. That the portion of the public domain heretofore known as Crown land is hereby declared to have been, on the twelfth day of August, eighteen hundred and ninety-eight, and prior thereto, the property of the Hawaiian government, and to be free and clear from any trust of or concerning the same, and from all claim of any nature whatsoever, upon the rents, issues, and profits thereof. It shall be subject to alienation and other uses as may be provided by law. o Pomai
As you already know the act itself (Act 26) can be seen in "The Laws of the Republic of Hawai'i: Special Session of 1895" here which starts on page 49. The distinctions are made clear even in their own words.
This can be compared and contrasted with what they wrote down and reported to the Department of Interior in 1902 which they described and recorded on the bottom of page 74:
The government: 1,495,000 acres
The crown: 984,000 acres
The chiefs: 1,619,000 acres
The native tenants: 28,000 acres
= 4,126,000 acres
Someone already mentioned this but the crown lands are not public land. It is *ali'i * land and *ali'i* ONLY but they co-opted the words "crown land" to mean "everyone in the Hawaiian Kingdom" to "everyone in Hawai'i" to now "general public in Hawai'i."
Title doesn't work that way in the haole world but am not surprised that they are trying to make it "okay" to use the personal property of ali'i. IMHO it is very disrespectful but they do have a bad habit of twisting words to include themselves for their benefit.
I am aware the the Crown land is inalienable, but could you inform me of where the concept of race as in "Native Indigenous Hawaiian people" was the legal basis in the HK as to who the beneficiaries are. My understanding is the subjects of the Hawaiian Kingdom are the beneficiaries no matter race. please let me know.
This is a very heated and/or sensitive issue to discuss but for me to include the subjects and/or citizens of the Hawaiian Kingdom is like slapping the face of ali'i and legal heirs which I will not do. It is considered VERY disrespectful to include oneself in someone else's private property.
Jon Van Dyke even wrote a book called, "Who Owns the Crown Lands of Hawai'i? in which he takes approximately 485 pages to *not* answer the question.
However the answer is that the ALI'I and their legal heirs own the crown lands. NO ONE else does: Kamehameha III died intestate then his PRIVATE property went to his legal heirs and so on. This is ali'i and ONLY ali'i.
Granted haole usurpers included themselves in the king's private property going as far as including themselves in a report on page 97 of "Message from the President of the United States: transmitting the report of the Hawaiian Commission" By United States. Hawaiian Commission, Sidney M. Ballou, Hawaii (1898) stating:
"[Crown lands] are now embraced as public lands."
No. It is and will ALWAYS be the private property of the ali'i and their legal heirs. NO ONE ELSE is included.
Just so that you know... to imply and/or to include others such as the general public and/or all the subjects of the Hawaiian Kingdom with the private property of ali'i and their legal heirs is very disrespectful especially to those ali'i watching and reading.
Many do not post here but they *ARE* watching *YOU*.
Just so that you know... to imply and/or to include others such as the general public and/or all the subjects of the Hawaiian Kingdom with the private property of ali'i and their legal heirs is very disrespectful especially to those ali'i watching and reading.
Many do not post here but they *ARE* watching *YOU*.
Just so you know All that I do in these matters is done with the assumption that everyone is watching. I welcome it. I did not imply or include the "General Public" or the American variations of putative Hawaiian citizenship. My question is on the subjects [property of the Mo'e, if you like] or the people that the Hawaiian Kingdom identifies as their own subjects.
E kala mai if anyone is offended by my question.
So what you are saying is their is no "Trust" and it is private land that belongs to the Ali'i. Who then owns this land. Are they known to you? Why did they not enter the lawsuit?
By the way Van Dyke's answer was that laws over a 100 years old fade from use!
"My question is on the subjects [property of the Mo'e, if you like] or the people that the Hawaiian Kingdom identifies as their own subjects.
E kala mai if anyone is offended by my question.
So what you are saying is their is no "Trust" and it is private land that belongs to the Ali'i. Who then owns this land. Are they known to you? Why did they not enter the lawsuit?"
Aloha kaua e Kai.
E kala mai but I am very mindful of ali'i.
Also... for the last 31+ years some people who have been paid to answer this question have yet to answer this question and you are asking *me* a question that some of them have YET to answer *correctly*??? LOL E kala mai but that amuses me.
"By the way Van Dyke's answer was that laws over a 100 years old fade from use!"
LOL... I purchased Jon Van Dyke's "Who Owns the Crown Lands of Hawai'i?" for $28 at the UH-Manoa bookstore and have read all 457 pages and he did not answer the question.
Instead what he does is state something SO disrespectful to ali'i in his pseudo-conclusion which I will repost here:
"It is clear that the Crown Lands held a special status in the Kingdom of Hawai'i and that their incorporation into the Public Lands Trust after the 1893 overthrow was inconsistent with this special status. These lands are still covered by trust obligations, the Native Hawaiian People as a collective group continue to have a strong claim to these lands, and it would appear to be appropriate for these lands to form the nucleus of the lands of the sovereign Native Hawaiian Nation that is now emerging."
Page 374
Jon Van Dyke, "Who Owns the Crown Lands of Hawai'i?"
2008
"The Native Hawaiian People" and "trust obligations?" Stupid mind games.
What he did in his book was pose a question that he didn't answer and used it to 1) Diss ali'i 2) Use others to diss ali'i even though his editor opted to capitalize the word "Ali'i" and3) Write a book so that he can make more money off of the lives of Hawaiians.
But only ali'i and their legal heirs have a say when it comes to crown lands. No one else does. To me to imply and/or state otherwise is a sign of disrespect to ali'i and I will have NO part in that.
Howeever I am not surprised when some people gripe about the haole usurpers --- then turn around and either usurp Queen Lili'uokalani's throne and/or usurp ali'i and their legal heirs from what is rightfully theirs.
Replies
For over 20 years, I attended many of the meetings of the OHA Trustees. I've also attended and testified at many Legislative Hearings at the Capitol. Also testifying at the Federal level for the protection of the Inherent Sovereign Right of our people. I have written documents to on my pass actions. I will continue to walk that path that I've walked in the past.
Since my arrest for driving my van I now am coming out stronger as a Hawaiian National of the Hawaiian Kingdom.
I have been in the movement for over 51 years. I see "Golden Opportunities" for our people. Now is the time for our people who really want Independence to go Home. Go Home to their native country, the Hawaiian Kingdom.
Stop trying to be like the Americans and steal from the Hawaian Kingdom. As the rights of our people are deeply rooted in the laws of the Hawaiian Kingdom.
Long Live The Hawaiian Kingdom, o Pomaikaiokalani
I believe that the central element to successfully addressing this. is a large enough coming together. That is why I believe the US works to disrupt our work. The courts will have to choose between their constitution and their own compelling interests.
Will they unravel America to illegally hold Hawaii?
Kai
Kauikeaouli had created the Great Mahele to protect the lands from foreign invasion; thus all the lands are private. This is why the rights of native tenants was applied to all the lands. The U.S. applied its own laws to supercede the superior title Hawai'i has on its lands and seas. Many confuse the government lands with the crown lands which are separate. Crown lands should not also be confused with the monarch's personal properties which are assigned to his/her heirs collaterally or otherwise in perpetuity.
Crown lands are for the use and revenues received from such lands for the monarch in line with his/her duties and expenses. These lands are used for the monarch and his/her successor in perpetuity during their reign. Those lands cannot be sold and the rights of native tenants are also applied to those lands which includes water and ocean rights. Lana has correctly cited why it was changed. The government had seen the land diminish by the King selling the property for more money, to pay off his debts, or for collateral; and to preserve the crown lands for future monarchs, they made it impossible for the monarch to sell the crown lands in doing so to preserve it for future monarchs to use in perpetuity during their reign.
Government lands were to be used to regulate public uses of those lands and revenues were to support the government expenses and payment of salaries to those in government and those working for the government.
Here again, the rights of native tenants living on those properties were protected. Government lands benefit the general public; this also entailed regulating water rights including ocean.
It was intended that native tenants (kanaka maoli) were to have allodial title; while foreigners were to have less than allodial title (lease or fee simple). All this was restructured illegally by the U.S. Americans and redefined without superior title to the lands. The U.S. concept of land ownership usurped the superior title.
Indigenous is a colonial term that I wouldn't use as how it is defined by the U.S. Native tenants at the time of the creation of the mahele were maka'ainana kanaka maoli; some had their lands partitioned by the courts according to their homestead and land that they farmed. Some gave it back to the konohiki; while others didn't request for the partition which they could've done at a later period of time or at the request of the ali'i, government, or monarch in which they resided and farmed. This also included "submerged" lands.
Contrary to what many believe, under the laws of occupation, hostile occupiers do not automatically become Kingdom subjects; they have to naturalize. They are still U.S. citizens who are violating the laws of occupation.
Foreign residents can only attain lease or fee title to lands. In the U.S., the lands are now lease or fee and the government owns the land in allodial. There are pockets where people own their land in allodial and shouldn't be paying land taxes because allodial is supreme title below God and above all mankind.
The U.S. uses their manifest destiny doctrines in dealing with land issues and control till today; even though they may not have the lawful or legal right to do so. One cannot view this within the U.S. framework. Nonetheless, whoever has the allodial title to the land is to whom one pays land taxes or fees for its use whether leased or fee.
Tane
§ 99. That the portion of the public domain heretofore known as Crown land is hereby declared to have been, on the twelfth day of August, eighteen hundred and ninety-eight, and prior thereto, the property of the Hawaiian government, and to be free and clear from any trust of or concerning the same, and from all claim of any nature whatsoever, upon the rents, issues, and profits thereof. It shall be subject to alienation and other uses as may be provided by law. o Pomai
This can be compared and contrasted with what they wrote down and reported to the Department of Interior in 1902 which they described and recorded on the bottom of page 74:
The government: 1,495,000 acres
The crown: 984,000 acres
The chiefs: 1,619,000 acres
The native tenants: 28,000 acres
= 4,126,000 acres
Someone already mentioned this but the crown lands are not public land. It is *ali'i * land and *ali'i* ONLY but they co-opted the words "crown land" to mean "everyone in the Hawaiian Kingdom" to "everyone in Hawai'i" to now "general public in Hawai'i."
Title doesn't work that way in the haole world but am not surprised that they are trying to make it "okay" to use the personal property of ali'i. IMHO it is very disrespectful but they do have a bad habit of twisting words to include themselves for their benefit.
I am aware the the Crown land is inalienable, but could you inform me of where the concept of race as in "Native Indigenous Hawaiian people" was the legal basis in the HK as to who the beneficiaries are. My understanding is the subjects of the Hawaiian Kingdom are the beneficiaries no matter race. please let me know.
Mahalo for you mana'o
Kai
This is a very heated and/or sensitive issue to discuss but for me to include the subjects and/or citizens of the Hawaiian Kingdom is like slapping the face of ali'i and legal heirs which I will not do. It is considered VERY disrespectful to include oneself in someone else's private property.
Jon Van Dyke even wrote a book called, "Who Owns the Crown Lands of Hawai'i? in which he takes approximately 485 pages to *not* answer the question.
However the answer is that the ALI'I and their legal heirs own the crown lands. NO ONE else does: Kamehameha III died intestate then his PRIVATE property went to his legal heirs and so on. This is ali'i and ONLY ali'i.
Granted haole usurpers included themselves in the king's private property going as far as including themselves in a report on page 97 of "Message from the President of the United States: transmitting the report of the Hawaiian Commission" By United States. Hawaiian Commission, Sidney M. Ballou, Hawaii (1898) stating:
"[Crown lands] are now embraced as public lands."
No. It is and will ALWAYS be the private property of the ali'i and their legal heirs. NO ONE ELSE is included.
See Kapiolani Estate versus Cleghorn 14 Hawai'i 330 in 1902 where it is clear that the crown lands as the King's private property is recognized by the Hawaii'i Supreme Court.
Just so that you know... to imply and/or to include others such as the general public and/or all the subjects of the Hawaiian Kingdom with the private property of ali'i and their legal heirs is very disrespectful especially to those ali'i watching and reading.
Many do not post here but they *ARE* watching *YOU*.
E malama pono, Lana
Just so that you know... to imply and/or to include others such as the general public and/or all the subjects of the Hawaiian Kingdom with the private property of ali'i and their legal heirs is very disrespectful especially to those ali'i watching and reading.
Many do not post here but they *ARE* watching *YOU*.
Just so you know All that I do in these matters is done with the assumption that everyone is watching. I welcome it. I did not imply or include the "General Public" or the American variations of putative Hawaiian citizenship. My question is on the subjects [property of the Mo'e, if you like] or the people that the Hawaiian Kingdom identifies as their own subjects.
E kala mai if anyone is offended by my question.
So what you are saying is their is no "Trust" and it is private land that belongs to the Ali'i. Who then owns this land. Are they known to you? Why did they not enter the lawsuit?
By the way Van Dyke's answer was that laws over a 100 years old fade from use!
Aloha Kai
E kala mai if anyone is offended by my question.
So what you are saying is their is no "Trust" and it is private land that belongs to the Ali'i. Who then owns this land. Are they known to you? Why did they not enter the lawsuit?"
Aloha kaua e Kai.
E kala mai but I am very mindful of ali'i.
Also... for the last 31+ years some people who have been paid to answer this question have yet to answer this question and you are asking *me* a question that some of them have YET to answer *correctly*??? LOL E kala mai but that amuses me.
"By the way Van Dyke's answer was that laws over a 100 years old fade from use!"
LOL... I purchased Jon Van Dyke's "Who Owns the Crown Lands of Hawai'i?" for $28 at the UH-Manoa bookstore and have read all 457 pages and he did not answer the question.
Instead what he does is state something SO disrespectful to ali'i in his pseudo-conclusion which I will repost here:
"It is clear that the Crown Lands held a special status in the Kingdom of Hawai'i and that their incorporation into the Public Lands Trust after the 1893 overthrow was inconsistent with this special status. These lands are still covered by trust obligations, the Native Hawaiian People as a collective group continue to have a strong claim to these lands, and it would appear to be appropriate for these lands to form the nucleus of the lands of the sovereign Native Hawaiian Nation that is now emerging."
Page 374
Jon Van Dyke, "Who Owns the Crown Lands of Hawai'i?"
2008
"The Native Hawaiian People" and "trust obligations?" Stupid mind games.
What he did in his book was pose a question that he didn't answer and used it to 1) Diss ali'i 2) Use others to diss ali'i even though his editor opted to capitalize the word "Ali'i" and3) Write a book so that he can make more money off of the lives of Hawaiians.
But only ali'i and their legal heirs have a say when it comes to crown lands. No one else does. To me to imply and/or state otherwise is a sign of disrespect to ali'i and I will have NO part in that.
Howeever I am not surprised when some people gripe about the haole usurpers --- then turn around and either usurp Queen Lili'uokalani's throne and/or usurp ali'i and their legal heirs from what is rightfully theirs.
Stay cool.
E malama pono, Lana
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