This was part of a discussion from nrv8n8 or Ms. Stephanie Laxton of Kohala, Hawaii.
I think everyone should be aware of these types of Hawaiian infiltrators. What do you think?
Permalink Reply by nrv8n8 11 hours ago
Example of a recent post by Amelia Gora: "Moana was a direct anestor of Lunalilo and Kalama,a wife of Heulu..." CORRECTION: It was Heulu who was a direct ancestor/descendant of Kalama and a direct lineal ancestor/descendant of her spouse) Moana was from another marriage and considered "step" to this example.
Of course others can claim "by marriage or half" but definitely NOT a DIRECT ANCESTOR/DESCENDANT.
And BTW..to Amelia Gora & her two followers who arise to post to her last discussion that was open and then closed after 3 posts, I do not live on the U.S. Mainland I'm FBI, my birthplace and unless you and your followers are familiar to what I do for my home and birthplace of Kamehameha I, suggest that you post information that is reality and truth especially when you pick on koko that you know nothing of; especially when you write of one's family member and you cross bloodlines in error to try to make your point with my line of which in prior posts you never knew of Heulu. Which you and your followers seem to claim you come from but you can't post it correctly as truth based on my correction as stated above. Keep your dear diary or dear john letters on your website or blog - do you need to recite these to try and make some validity to whom you are and your claims to try to convince those who have not or do not know of you YET? Is this what the bible calls as a "false prophet in the end times"? OMG...pretty close I think...but that is just my personal opinion. Never cross genealogical lines for you already crossed a thin line with me but, hey I guess I'm game for you...BRING IT ON! I like the odds so far...SMILE.
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Nohealani,
I had time so I went through Ululani's post blog. I enjoyed Ululani blog. Maybe someday, I will be able to post some of the same, so that my children nieces and nephews will be able to see and read their string to the source and add their strings.
I'm writing this too, because I think this is important, I read through her point about 'disinformers' and Amelia is coming from caution and concern for everyone. The "disinformers" is important to read through because even I have to be careful what I say on this open forum. We have to back up with what we say as much as possible with evidence, if we are to serve our people and serve them well. Secondly, we have young people that are up and coming they too, will have to live their life backing up their thoughts with evidence. Thirdly, we live in the information age, I believe this is the way out of the 'pain and suffering' and allowing the light to shine in.
One of the things that Toni said, she did not want to leave, (can't find the exact posting to quote) the responsibility to the younger generation to decided. I tend to side with her even knowing that space and time are two different elements. Will we see justice in our time, or will it be business as usual.
If, either one is the case we still have to put food on the table and pay bills. Some of us have no dependents, and some of us have lots of mouths to feed. Those of us with dependents have to walk, talk, smile, scream, yell, rant and rave till we leave this world.
So, I err on the scholarly cautious baby steps even though I most times want to move ahead and get going to move on to the next problem. Sometimes, I need an ego check!
Amelia caught something and I just glossed over it. As an instructor I too, have to post and back it up, or state whether it's an opinion or fact and too, remain open to criticism, even though it hurts. take care Kaohi
Mahalo for your response. I too believe that evidence is a necessary aspect of whatever we present. I have gone though several of Amelia's posts and have actually verified some of what she has presented. My only criticism, and I do not mean this in a negative way, is that she presents too much in a single post and as such much of what she is trying to convey is lost. It is obvious that she wishes to convey much information and the sources from where she derives her conclusions but she covers so much in one post that it becomes difficult to follow. Perhaps breaking the subjects down into smaller pieces would make it more palatable and easier to follow. Also she cites many resources but not what each proves. Again, taking each in smaller increments may help explain her conclusions. We may all learn from this and this is what I believe should happen in forums like this - to learn from each other not only what is factual but our manao as well. In this way we will be able to pass on to the next generation and the generations that follow a better understanding of our history and our thoughts be it the same or different. After all, not even our most respected Hawaiian historians agreed on all points. It is okay to disagree but when presented with evidence contrary to our own thinking, we should not be afraid to re-evaluate our own thinking and decide to accept it or not. If we do not, then we should be able to say why not.
The age of technology puts before us a tool of such immense importance making information available that was at one time difficult to obtain. It has allowed forums such as this where people can discuss their thoughts and findings. At no other time in history has there been such an opportunity to share and communicate and we need to take advantage of this in a way that will help the Hawaiian people. Those of my generation will soon be gone. What better way to pass on our knowledge to the generations that follow - we have so much to offer. We are all different and may not agree at times but our combined knowledge is indeed rich.
Nohealani,
Just checking in to the forums to see what's going on. We have so much work to do and really need to move beyond 'pain and suffering' I too have not met Amelia in person although we have attended the same meetings. She is a researcher that I have noticed that walk along side the makaainana and open to criticism. And her researching skills is needed because not many of us can spend the time researching. Obviously, the genealogy on her family side had intertwined with the political side of the Hawaiian movement. I rarely share my genealogy I just don't want to 'speak' to the pain and suffering that comes with it.
Recently, in our meetings or gathering a little bit of intro needed to be shared, where your piko buried, Moku, where your five generations lived, what community you are servicing today and live. The question that is being asked (without asking), Is our bases covered? Sometimes or most times Kauai is not covered.
Within her opposition group (ohana) she has talented family members that can weave what the research says, where are our people exist in this fake state reality, and what is our reality. These are filter processes, Almost always, the makaainana are always not part of this process, they are completely left out! Amelia, runs contrary to this practice. The secrets, secret of publishing, secret of thrills, secret of twilights, forced secrets, blind secrets, I do the same too. Sometimes it's intended, sometimes it's laziness, sometimes it's unconcious. Regardless, we must move on through time and space. I'm babbling
As my niece says, Aunty de-occupation begins within our family (she was referring to our family) at a party. Of course, my opinion this would never happen! I hope I'm wrong. So, I don't go there,however those that do go there, I consider pretty brave.
We (my Ohana) have yet to go through this process and when I read the jolts, slices, etc.. I am thinking about my family and our process that has yet to be lived.
Kaohi
Mahalo for your insight. I believe it is important to hear another's opinion even if it s contrary to our own. This is a way of learning and growth. Genealogy is a "touchy" subject for many. Some feel it should be kept within the family and others feel it should be made known. The genealogies of our families is part of our history, of who we are not only as individuals but as a people. Before our history was written down our history was passed from generation to generation orally. When Kupuna who were knowledgeable in some part of our history passed away without passing their knowledge on, we lost some of our rich history.
For me my genealogy gives me a place in the past and helps me connect to the future. Knowing my genealogy is the greatest respect I can give to my ancestors and their greatest gift to me. The more I learn about them, the greater an understanding I have of their own struggles in a time of unprecedented change. Today we are again on the threshold of change and we face an even greater struggle as a people.
Just to set the record straight. I have seen posts that refer to followers of Amelia. I do not know who she is but have seen many comments about her. I replied to her and in order to do that, or so I thought, I needed to be invited as a friend. I am now listed as a friend and I can only assume that when one says "followers of Amelia" they are referring to me as well. I do not know who she is. I just wanted to know where she obtained sources of information for my Ohana so that I could verify it my self. It should not be assumed that one is a follower of anyone just because they replied to a post. This is not Pono. Apparently someone else has been labeled as such and she also did not know this person.
I am new to these posts and have absolutely no idea why so many on these posts have an issue with this woman. From what I have been reading there is a lot of heated words going back and forth on this one person alone. While I find some of her comments interesting, it does not mean that I agree with what she says.
Would appreciate it if those on this forum do not refer to me as a follower of anyone. I enjoy participating in this forum and have seen many good discussions and have also learned some things. This to me is what a forum should be - a place to exchange ideas whether or not you agree. This is communication. It can be a very good thing. Sometimes we can even learn from people whose ideas we do not agree with if we keep an open mind.
It should not be assumed that one is a follower of anyone just because they replied to a post. This is not Pono. Apparently someone else has been labeled as such and she also did not know this person.
Aloha e Nohealani.
Before you came to Maoliworld there has been some drama. Unfortunately Amelia made her drama your drama. With that stated... this place is actually cool except the times when Amelia disrespects the iwi which disses ali'i and makaainana. Some people are not okay with that. Thus the predicament of defending the iwi which some of us do.
This to me is what a forum should be - a place to exchange ideas whether or not you agree. This is communication. It can be a very good thing. Sometimes we can even learn from people whose ideas we do not agree with if we keep an open mind.
Unfortunately you were invited by Amelia on a poor foundation but just so you know she starts posts and closes it which is bad netiquette. Lately she posted her response to the forum part but closed it so that no one can respond. Therefore just so you know... most of us agree with you about communication. However Amelia does not communicate with people. Instead she disses, harasses, and tries to threaten people and even goes as far as contacting someone like you whom I do not know in a failed attempt to try to make it seem as though one of my relatives' opinion matters to me. I don't know you or where your piko comes from but just thought you would like to know what is going on. It's not you. It's the results of what Amelia has been doing since she's posted here. In time you will see how she acts and reacts here.
I appreciate your frankness. If I'm not mistaken I may have e-mailed you some time ago concerning our possible family connection. I'm not all that sure though. I've been enjoying the good communication on the many groups in Maoliworld. Most interesting.
My cousins and well as old 'ohana friends from Kohala in HPD going LOL when dey see your reports to them from Maoliworld. Dey already know I'm known here on Maoliworld.
Again, go pule, go eat something, go get some rest, or bettah yet go take a long vacation from all your posting here because YOUR WRITINGS HERE ARE QUESTIONABLE TO ME...and I'm sure to a lot many who just don't want to get into the drama with you but are following your character here....Eh you lookin' good to fellow Kanaka Maoli...YOU SHOWING YOUR TAIL!
NOTE: Curses? Aye S.O.S......I guess if you took it that way it was meant for you to take it that way and what your na'au is feeling....all I claimed was the obvious when you are working in genealogy and for you to call me a dirt bag here is also claiming my ancestors were dirt bags because I carry their name long before your name ever existed..PAU!
Replies
I had time so I went through Ululani's post blog. I enjoyed Ululani blog. Maybe someday, I will be able to post some of the same, so that my children nieces and nephews will be able to see and read their string to the source and add their strings.
I'm writing this too, because I think this is important, I read through her point about 'disinformers' and Amelia is coming from caution and concern for everyone. The "disinformers" is important to read through because even I have to be careful what I say on this open forum. We have to back up with what we say as much as possible with evidence, if we are to serve our people and serve them well. Secondly, we have young people that are up and coming they too, will have to live their life backing up their thoughts with evidence. Thirdly, we live in the information age, I believe this is the way out of the 'pain and suffering' and allowing the light to shine in.
One of the things that Toni said, she did not want to leave, (can't find the exact posting to quote) the responsibility to the younger generation to decided. I tend to side with her even knowing that space and time are two different elements. Will we see justice in our time, or will it be business as usual.
If, either one is the case we still have to put food on the table and pay bills. Some of us have no dependents, and some of us have lots of mouths to feed. Those of us with dependents have to walk, talk, smile, scream, yell, rant and rave till we leave this world.
So, I err on the scholarly cautious baby steps even though I most times want to move ahead and get going to move on to the next problem. Sometimes, I need an ego check!
Amelia caught something and I just glossed over it. As an instructor I too, have to post and back it up, or state whether it's an opinion or fact and too, remain open to criticism, even though it hurts. take care Kaohi
Mahalo for your response. I too believe that evidence is a necessary aspect of whatever we present. I have gone though several of Amelia's posts and have actually verified some of what she has presented. My only criticism, and I do not mean this in a negative way, is that she presents too much in a single post and as such much of what she is trying to convey is lost. It is obvious that she wishes to convey much information and the sources from where she derives her conclusions but she covers so much in one post that it becomes difficult to follow. Perhaps breaking the subjects down into smaller pieces would make it more palatable and easier to follow. Also she cites many resources but not what each proves. Again, taking each in smaller increments may help explain her conclusions. We may all learn from this and this is what I believe should happen in forums like this - to learn from each other not only what is factual but our manao as well. In this way we will be able to pass on to the next generation and the generations that follow a better understanding of our history and our thoughts be it the same or different. After all, not even our most respected Hawaiian historians agreed on all points. It is okay to disagree but when presented with evidence contrary to our own thinking, we should not be afraid to re-evaluate our own thinking and decide to accept it or not. If we do not, then we should be able to say why not.
The age of technology puts before us a tool of such immense importance making information available that was at one time difficult to obtain. It has allowed forums such as this where people can discuss their thoughts and findings. At no other time in history has there been such an opportunity to share and communicate and we need to take advantage of this in a way that will help the Hawaiian people. Those of my generation will soon be gone. What better way to pass on our knowledge to the generations that follow - we have so much to offer. We are all different and may not agree at times but our combined knowledge is indeed rich.
Nohealani
Just checking in to the forums to see what's going on. We have so much work to do and really need to move beyond 'pain and suffering' I too have not met Amelia in person although we have attended the same meetings. She is a researcher that I have noticed that walk along side the makaainana and open to criticism. And her researching skills is needed because not many of us can spend the time researching. Obviously, the genealogy on her family side had intertwined with the political side of the Hawaiian movement. I rarely share my genealogy I just don't want to 'speak' to the pain and suffering that comes with it.
Recently, in our meetings or gathering a little bit of intro needed to be shared, where your piko buried, Moku, where your five generations lived, what community you are servicing today and live. The question that is being asked (without asking), Is our bases covered? Sometimes or most times Kauai is not covered.
Within her opposition group (ohana) she has talented family members that can weave what the research says, where are our people exist in this fake state reality, and what is our reality. These are filter processes, Almost always, the makaainana are always not part of this process, they are completely left out! Amelia, runs contrary to this practice. The secrets, secret of publishing, secret of thrills, secret of twilights, forced secrets, blind secrets, I do the same too. Sometimes it's intended, sometimes it's laziness, sometimes it's unconcious. Regardless, we must move on through time and space. I'm babbling
As my niece says, Aunty de-occupation begins within our family (she was referring to our family) at a party. Of course, my opinion this would never happen! I hope I'm wrong. So, I don't go there,however those that do go there, I consider pretty brave.
We (my Ohana) have yet to go through this process and when I read the jolts, slices, etc.. I am thinking about my family and our process that has yet to be lived.
Kaohi
For me my genealogy gives me a place in the past and helps me connect to the future. Knowing my genealogy is the greatest respect I can give to my ancestors and their greatest gift to me. The more I learn about them, the greater an understanding I have of their own struggles in a time of unprecedented change. Today we are again on the threshold of change and we face an even greater struggle as a people.
Nohealani
Just to set the record straight. I have seen posts that refer to followers of Amelia. I do not know who she is but have seen many comments about her. I replied to her and in order to do that, or so I thought, I needed to be invited as a friend. I am now listed as a friend and I can only assume that when one says "followers of Amelia" they are referring to me as well. I do not know who she is. I just wanted to know where she obtained sources of information for my Ohana so that I could verify it my self. It should not be assumed that one is a follower of anyone just because they replied to a post. This is not Pono. Apparently someone else has been labeled as such and she also did not know this person.
I am new to these posts and have absolutely no idea why so many on these posts have an issue with this woman. From what I have been reading there is a lot of heated words going back and forth on this one person alone. While I find some of her comments interesting, it does not mean that I agree with what she says.
Would appreciate it if those on this forum do not refer to me as a follower of anyone. I enjoy participating in this forum and have seen many good discussions and have also learned some things. This to me is what a forum should be - a place to exchange ideas whether or not you agree. This is communication. It can be a very good thing. Sometimes we can even learn from people whose ideas we do not agree with if we keep an open mind.
Mahalo,
Nohealani
Aloha e Nohealani.
Before you came to Maoliworld there has been some drama. Unfortunately Amelia made her drama your drama. With that stated... this place is actually cool except the times when Amelia disrespects the iwi which disses ali'i and makaainana. Some people are not okay with that. Thus the predicament of defending the iwi which some of us do.
This to me is what a forum should be - a place to exchange ideas whether or not you agree. This is communication. It can be a very good thing. Sometimes we can even learn from people whose ideas we do not agree with if we keep an open mind.
Unfortunately you were invited by Amelia on a poor foundation but just so you know she starts posts and closes it which is bad netiquette. Lately she posted her response to the forum part but closed it so that no one can respond. Therefore just so you know... most of us agree with you about communication. However Amelia does not communicate with people. Instead she disses, harasses, and tries to threaten people and even goes as far as contacting someone like you whom I do not know in a failed attempt to try to make it seem as though one of my relatives' opinion matters to me. I don't know you or where your piko comes from but just thought you would like to know what is going on. It's not you. It's the results of what Amelia has been doing since she's posted here. In time you will see how she acts and reacts here.
In any case welcome to Maoliworld!
Malama pono, Lana
I appreciate your frankness. If I'm not mistaken I may have e-mailed you some time ago concerning our possible family connection. I'm not all that sure though. I've been enjoying the good communication on the many groups in Maoliworld. Most interesting.
Aloha,
Nohealani
Sorry for not having mentioned Kilinahe. He was also a driect descenant of Moana (w) through her daughter Kaleimanokahoowaha.
Perhaps we can discuss on the genealogy group of this web site.
Nohealani
Again, go pule, go eat something, go get some rest, or bettah yet go take a long vacation from all your posting here because YOUR WRITINGS HERE ARE QUESTIONABLE TO ME...and I'm sure to a lot many who just don't want to get into the drama with you but are following your character here....Eh you lookin' good to fellow Kanaka Maoli...YOU SHOWING YOUR TAIL!
NOTE: Curses? Aye S.O.S......I guess if you took it that way it was meant for you to take it that way and what your na'au is feeling....all I claimed was the obvious when you are working in genealogy and for you to call me a dirt bag here is also claiming my ancestors were dirt bags because I carry their name long before your name ever existed..PAU!
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