In the post by Clarence Ching he argues people should pay less taxes as opposed to more. So it got me thinking. I was asked in a recent meeting in Maui: "We have hui land so should we pay land taxes"
My answer was probably less then helpful, but my friend says
"What are they paying taxes to a foreign country for?"
Yes why are Na Kanaka paying the occupation government tax money to be on their own land.
His suggestion is to write to the US government and have them show us the legal basis for taxing Kanaka Maoli in their own country.
I know others have done this with out a good answer yet!
Mana'o?
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Understanding the laws of occupation could clear the air of uncertainty. Even under belligerent occupation, one is still obligated to pay taxes in Hawai'i but not in America where the U.S. is from. Of course the U.S. has continuously violate the laws of occupation. The other factor is those that have allodial title don't have to pay land taxes as allodial title is superior to all. Services extended from the kingdom is still in effect despite the violating intrusion of U.S. citizen settlers. The U.S. is responsible to maintain the welfare of the Hawai'i nationals due to it's unlawful occupation; nonetheless those laws bind them.
This is further obfuscated by the fraud committed by the U.S. to hide its responsibilities. It's good to remember that the Hawaiian Kingdom was one of the most modern country in its heyday. I like how Shirley gets around the pilikia.
i always look forward to your response, you are a spirit of mana
a Blessing of knowledge we, the next generation need lessons from,
you are like behind the curtains, on the front lines and is there when
ever the knowledge is there for us to grab and apply it in our generation, today.....
mahalo nui loa to Akua for the wise men in our surroundings
you make it possible every time i view the words of your heart and experience,
may you contunue the growth of mana and i will remember the words you shared .......
i myself have not paid taxes or voted in this illegal system
however, i do render my services in programs that will automatic
benefit an organization or program that will benefit kanaka maoli's.
as for the services that is due to us as public is what is owed to me as an kanaka maoli, period
i also utilize my awards as a kanaka maoli in this illegal system, think about it
we deserve every reward that is owed to us, even as public.
example; if you go homeless, for hot showers (go to the public swimming pool), for food ( go food bank), for
clothing (go to salvation army), for money (go welfare).........now thats working the system and i wonder
why most in line for these public services is the mainland people, now are we the host culture missing
out as public persons.
being homeless for 8 years on the streets, in the bushes, open beaches, valleys, mountians, streams on this
kingdom of maui nui (what a blessing from Akua) and i was able to learn the ways of the public services and claim the awards of paying NO TAXES, yet using the facilities and public services, WHY, because it is my RIGHTS.......
and yes, how this illegal system is made up for me to learn how the awards and rewards of being a kanaka
maoli and living the american illegal system ways of life in hawaii nei turns out to be a blessing until our
Kingdom Government Rules.
For me, learn your Rights-then learn this illegal system, it is made up of rules to award ones in need.
check your needy status and go claim your reward. believe me it is out there waiting for your public needs.
we as kanaka maoli's have to use the benefits that is out there for kanaka maoli's and as a public resident.
the hard core tax payers, is obligated to pay or they will be homeless themselves, see how this illegal system works,
now one that is homeless has NO obligations at all to this illegal system but to be a pimple in the
publics eye. think about it........
yet the homeless is part of the community, the environment. public servants has to work with and maintain
awareness in public places that is lingered with drug and alchohal homeless people from the mainland and/or
locals in the area.
Taxes is for Americans, not for kanaka maoli's----history proved that kanaka maoli's lived a simple life, no need money, they lived a very simple life, all their needs was at their finger tips already.....................~da princess~
Once things are in place where kanaka are not jailed for doing the right thing then Hawaiians by nationality are not obligated to pay taxes to Americans. However I do not want to see them in jail or in prison in the meantime.
IMHO it is a very slippery slope when discussing this issue but once the land is restored... so are the people thus the kingdom.
So far I see a few people whom I trust implicitly with the groundwork with the land. The land part is the most difficult part and few people are up to that challenge. Or in some cases their desire for the land supercedes that of doing for the betterment of all. It can be difficult to trust.
The taxes part are easier. IMHO. I am not so sure about some others though... because IMHO they are part of the problem and profit off of this quagmire so have a vested interest in it lingering to infinity.
I understand your concerns and yet I still dont see what the solutions are in your mana'o. Of course there is good and bad people involved in this process.
When I look over there in America, it looks like the whole process has been hijacked. In Hawaii the jig is up.
How does any nation function if it waits for perfection to begin self governance. for me it is only the process of accountability. If you not accountable for you actions to other people you simply do not represent anyone but yourself.
We have open meetings once a month and our numbers are public and we respond to all inquires and complaints.
That's all we can do right now. We grow small kine, day by day, one kanaka at a time.
that all we can do for now and appeal for more direct participation.
That's the part...we don't have a treasury. I do not want the responsibilty of the treasury but if we have a board overseeing things are akamai I'd be interested. I have been on finance boards with nonprofits. We need expertise in the treasury I've mentioned this in prior discussions. We need currency - create our own Kingdom dollahs? Our old ones are collectibles today = value would be higher pending how the market works. Or we can use another country's money for trade. Pesos? A lot can be done. But nuff talking about it, get po'e together and do something about it which I've already stated this in prior posts. If the North American Union comes together should we go yen or chinese currency as a safe guard if the Kingdom rejuvenates itself in 5 to 10 years????
What federal taxes besides: telephone and electricity are you referring to? Even though electricity is a public utility you choose to pay it when you receive the service just as you do with telephone.
County is where we currently have paid taxes on property for public improvements. If I'm not mistaken isn't this (County) and BOC part of the Hawaiian Kingdom in reference to when we had Governors? I don't know what you are referencing. We had a County government (maybe called something else in Kingdom times) and it never changed anything. It's the creation of the Republic/Territory and State where the entity of government is fraudulent.
At the end of the year my husband and I do not pay federal income tax because of the exemptions that we file and write offs we can take. We claim high exemptions so that the feds take out less than $500 a month in "presumed federal income tax" which we end up getting all of it back at the end of the year. This is creative and legal bookkeeping.
We pay a federal and state tax for gas but if we chose not to put gas in our car and walk that again is an option. If we had mass transit we would pay federal tax/excise each time we purchase a monthly pass or pay into the system. If we chose not to use it, then we would walk or ride a horse.
I understand where you are coming from, but they will say words I'm throwing at you now - you have to use another angle to get your point across of living in hawaii tax free.
Not to be mean as I say this, just seeing some truth from my end of the glasses.
Aloha Kai, Stephanie
Kai Landow > HALE O KEAWE-A-HEULU aka: NAIHEDecember 15, 2009 at 5:12pm
I never said tax free! What you neva like pay for services? My point is why pay the State,County and federal if you don't live in their country. I am saying make them prove that they have the right to charge taxes of foreign citizens in a foreign nation.
Sometimes civil disobedience can take a legal stance. Make them prove it!!!!!!!! It is not illegal to require the IRS to prove you owe them anything.
Your not mean you are just in that old thinking [I dont mean to be mean] I am in the middle of a revolution and us guys will not go to the back of the bus.
We should be supporting Hawaiian Kingdom efforts with that same money were not paying the US.
So this is what I would tell them.
My government is in a financial crisis [We got no money] and so I appreciate that you would like my money too, but since i don't live in your country I really should be giving to my own government.
And when Hawaiians support their own government they can provide real services like:
Car insurance
Health insurance
Day care
education
Housing
Food
Na Konohiki
Temple of Lono
Makahiki
Poi
Tax free gas
and if you think it is corrupt you get involved and be the one in charge of the Treasury!
I understand where you're coming from...I don't pay taxes but I make them think I do as far as day to day activities...you can also write off federal taxes on phone bills.
The only support I currently do is Uluhaimalama (the Queens garden) and making sure taxes and care get taken cared of.
I won't pay taxes on anything in the Hawaiian Kingdom government unless I know who is running the outfit and they have what it take...SMILE
Be back later...have a pa'ina to attend...no disrespect I'm looking at reality that is all...it can happen and I want it to happen but the key is...WHO I TRUST TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN? Mmmmhmmm.
Kai Landow > HALE O KEAWE-A-HEULU aka: NAIHEDecember 17, 2009 at 3:50am
Aloha Stephanie,
I want it to happen but the key is...WHO I TRUST TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN? Mmmmhmmm.
THIS IS EXACTLY THE ANSWER. IT IS YOU! IT IS YOU AND OTHERS THAT MUST STEP UP AND BE DIRECTLY INVOLVED.
I just do not understand, are you waiting for me or the people I work to prove to you we can be trusted? You do see that saying things like that is a monkey wrench for this process.
Have to asked yourself why don't you know who is participating right now? If you did I believe you would never say such a thing. When you say things like "Who can you trust" kanaka believe you have done your homework and no legitimate Aupuni is out there.
Often we get criticized by kanaka on this very issue. they say things like:
Who do you think you are?
Who told you, you could do this?
OK we say you do'em then, you get involved and make this work.
"Oh no, I never say I can do'em, I just like know you guys is not monkeying round and...?
In short we get excuses and mostly little participation.
When you pay legitimate taxes it is because you have representative governance and you cannot have an Aupuni without it having resources to function.
Did you ever wonder how we function now? You have not given us kala?
We spend our own money. We work in regular jobs and save what we can to pay legal filings, host websites, buy gas to go around the aina to appear in court for our citizens who need help. We buy food to feed people who are hungry and anything needed to deal with the desperate conditions Kanaka find themselves in as a result of America oppression.
I can tell you the strain on our relationships we face. Our families would like us to put their needs first. We have babies on the way and sick grandchildren and homes where the wall falls off, some the walls are just blue tarps. We are generally broke...
And in the middle of all this, where we are treading water you want us to prove to you that we are trust worthy?
..it can happen and I want it to happen
Yes YES, it can happen and I do whatever I can to make it happen...and I am asking you and everyone speak about what you know. Fix what you know is wrong and when you criticize the actions of your Aupuni it is after you yourself have jumped in and addressed it with your local government first.
If they refuse to make corrections, then I hope what you put out is constructive and offers solutions.
Stephanie, without doubt you are very active and have done maika'i ka hana for years.
Kala mai if I use what say to share my mana'o based on your comments offend, it is not meant personally.
But I believe we must address our mindsets and start to speak in new ways. Local governments already exist and I am not saying we should immediately set up a tax system for the Hawaiian Kingdom. We can not because we wait for kanaka to get involved on a level that reflects the body politic and can represent Kanaka interests accurately.
Our Pro-tempore posts also handicap us from fully acting on initiatives. The problems are not as big as they seem. But Kukahi has to increase for movement to manifest.
Replies
I like the 2013 year best!
As for the 'slippery slope' arguments mahalo!
And yes they eye's are there and they do go to sleep at night knowing that they have done well in dividing and conquering.
Thanks Kai Kaohi
This is further obfuscated by the fraud committed by the U.S. to hide its responsibilities. It's good to remember that the Hawaiian Kingdom was one of the most modern country in its heyday. I like how Shirley gets around the pilikia.
That's my take on it.
i always look forward to your response, you are a spirit of mana
a Blessing of knowledge we, the next generation need lessons from,
you are like behind the curtains, on the front lines and is there when
ever the knowledge is there for us to grab and apply it in our generation, today.....
mahalo nui loa to Akua for the wise men in our surroundings
you make it possible every time i view the words of your heart and experience,
may you contunue the growth of mana and i will remember the words you shared .......
i myself have not paid taxes or voted in this illegal system
however, i do render my services in programs that will automatic
benefit an organization or program that will benefit kanaka maoli's.
as for the services that is due to us as public is what is owed to me as an kanaka maoli, period
i also utilize my awards as a kanaka maoli in this illegal system, think about it
we deserve every reward that is owed to us, even as public.
example; if you go homeless, for hot showers (go to the public swimming pool), for food ( go food bank), for
clothing (go to salvation army), for money (go welfare).........now thats working the system and i wonder
why most in line for these public services is the mainland people, now are we the host culture missing
out as public persons.
being homeless for 8 years on the streets, in the bushes, open beaches, valleys, mountians, streams on this
kingdom of maui nui (what a blessing from Akua) and i was able to learn the ways of the public services and claim the awards of paying NO TAXES, yet using the facilities and public services, WHY, because it is my RIGHTS.......
and yes, how this illegal system is made up for me to learn how the awards and rewards of being a kanaka
maoli and living the american illegal system ways of life in hawaii nei turns out to be a blessing until our
Kingdom Government Rules.
For me, learn your Rights-then learn this illegal system, it is made up of rules to award ones in need.
check your needy status and go claim your reward. believe me it is out there waiting for your public needs.
we as kanaka maoli's have to use the benefits that is out there for kanaka maoli's and as a public resident.
the hard core tax payers, is obligated to pay or they will be homeless themselves, see how this illegal system works,
now one that is homeless has NO obligations at all to this illegal system but to be a pimple in the
publics eye. think about it........
yet the homeless is part of the community, the environment. public servants has to work with and maintain
awareness in public places that is lingered with drug and alchohal homeless people from the mainland and/or
locals in the area.
Taxes is for Americans, not for kanaka maoli's----history proved that kanaka maoli's lived a simple life, no need money, they lived a very simple life, all their needs was at their finger tips already.....................~da princess~
Once things are in place where kanaka are not jailed for doing the right thing then Hawaiians by nationality are not obligated to pay taxes to Americans. However I do not want to see them in jail or in prison in the meantime.
IMHO it is a very slippery slope when discussing this issue but once the land is restored... so are the people thus the kingdom.
So far I see a few people whom I trust implicitly with the groundwork with the land. The land part is the most difficult part and few people are up to that challenge. Or in some cases their desire for the land supercedes that of doing for the betterment of all. It can be difficult to trust.
The taxes part are easier. IMHO. I am not so sure about some others though... because IMHO they are part of the problem and profit off of this quagmire so have a vested interest in it lingering to infinity.
E malama pono.
I understand your concerns and yet I still dont see what the solutions are in your mana'o. Of course there is good and bad people involved in this process.
When I look over there in America, it looks like the whole process has been hijacked. In Hawaii the jig is up.
How does any nation function if it waits for perfection to begin self governance. for me it is only the process of accountability. If you not accountable for you actions to other people you simply do not represent anyone but yourself.
We have open meetings once a month and our numbers are public and we respond to all inquires and complaints.
That's all we can do right now. We grow small kine, day by day, one kanaka at a time.
that all we can do for now and appeal for more direct participation.
hui hou kai
County is where we currently have paid taxes on property for public improvements. If I'm not mistaken isn't this (County) and BOC part of the Hawaiian Kingdom in reference to when we had Governors? I don't know what you are referencing. We had a County government (maybe called something else in Kingdom times) and it never changed anything. It's the creation of the Republic/Territory and State where the entity of government is fraudulent.
At the end of the year my husband and I do not pay federal income tax because of the exemptions that we file and write offs we can take. We claim high exemptions so that the feds take out less than $500 a month in "presumed federal income tax" which we end up getting all of it back at the end of the year. This is creative and legal bookkeeping.
We pay a federal and state tax for gas but if we chose not to put gas in our car and walk that again is an option. If we had mass transit we would pay federal tax/excise each time we purchase a monthly pass or pay into the system. If we chose not to use it, then we would walk or ride a horse.
I understand where you are coming from, but they will say words I'm throwing at you now - you have to use another angle to get your point across of living in hawaii tax free.
Not to be mean as I say this, just seeing some truth from my end of the glasses.
Aloha Kai, Stephanie
Sometimes civil disobedience can take a legal stance. Make them prove it!!!!!!!! It is not illegal to require the IRS to prove you owe them anything.
Your not mean you are just in that old thinking [I dont mean to be mean] I am in the middle of a revolution and us guys will not go to the back of the bus.
We should be supporting Hawaiian Kingdom efforts with that same money were not paying the US.
So this is what I would tell them.
My government is in a financial crisis [We got no money] and so I appreciate that you would like my money too, but since i don't live in your country I really should be giving to my own government.
And when Hawaiians support their own government they can provide real services like:
Car insurance
Health insurance
Day care
education
Housing
Food
Na Konohiki
Temple of Lono
Makahiki
Poi
Tax free gas
and if you think it is corrupt you get involved and be the one in charge of the Treasury!
aloha Stephanie
The only support I currently do is Uluhaimalama (the Queens garden) and making sure taxes and care get taken cared of.
I won't pay taxes on anything in the Hawaiian Kingdom government unless I know who is running the outfit and they have what it take...SMILE
Be back later...have a pa'ina to attend...no disrespect I'm looking at reality that is all...it can happen and I want it to happen but the key is...WHO I TRUST TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN? Mmmmhmmm.
I want it to happen but the key is...WHO I TRUST TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN? Mmmmhmmm.
THIS IS EXACTLY THE ANSWER. IT IS YOU! IT IS YOU AND OTHERS THAT MUST STEP UP AND BE DIRECTLY INVOLVED.
I just do not understand, are you waiting for me or the people I work to prove to you we can be trusted? You do see that saying things like that is a monkey wrench for this process.
Have to asked yourself why don't you know who is participating right now? If you did I believe you would never say such a thing. When you say things like "Who can you trust" kanaka believe you have done your homework and no legitimate Aupuni is out there.
Often we get criticized by kanaka on this very issue. they say things like:
Who do you think you are?
Who told you, you could do this?
OK we say you do'em then, you get involved and make this work.
"Oh no, I never say I can do'em, I just like know you guys is not monkeying round and...?
In short we get excuses and mostly little participation.
When you pay legitimate taxes it is because you have representative governance and you cannot have an Aupuni without it having resources to function.
Did you ever wonder how we function now? You have not given us kala?
We spend our own money. We work in regular jobs and save what we can to pay legal filings, host websites, buy gas to go around the aina to appear in court for our citizens who need help. We buy food to feed people who are hungry and anything needed to deal with the desperate conditions Kanaka find themselves in as a result of America oppression.
I can tell you the strain on our relationships we face. Our families would like us to put their needs first. We have babies on the way and sick grandchildren and homes where the wall falls off, some the walls are just blue tarps. We are generally broke...
And in the middle of all this, where we are treading water you want us to prove to you that we are trust worthy?
..it can happen and I want it to happen
Yes YES, it can happen and I do whatever I can to make it happen...and I am asking you and everyone speak about what you know. Fix what you know is wrong and when you criticize the actions of your Aupuni it is after you yourself have jumped in and addressed it with your local government first.
If they refuse to make corrections, then I hope what you put out is constructive and offers solutions.
Stephanie, without doubt you are very active and have done maika'i ka hana for years.
Kala mai if I use what say to share my mana'o based on your comments offend, it is not meant personally.
But I believe we must address our mindsets and start to speak in new ways. Local governments already exist and I am not saying we should immediately set up a tax system for the Hawaiian Kingdom. We can not because we wait for kanaka to get involved on a level that reflects the body politic and can represent Kanaka interests accurately.
Our Pro-tempore posts also handicap us from fully acting on initiatives. The problems are not as big as they seem. But Kukahi has to increase for movement to manifest.
Aloha
Kai
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