I noted in a closed discussion highlighting an excerpt which I have chosen as a discussion title for this forum I'm posting.
Genealogy is something not to be taken without seriousness (for it is a record/document) and in my opinion, it shouldn't be entertainment to place division amongst hawaiians as to who has certain rights or claims to those things "hawaiian" that is significant to history and may play some kind of role or change for our future history based on the opinion of someone engaged in a movement that is not the view of even 1/2 of our population of koko here on Maoliworld or in Hawaii Nei. I feel that any one claiming themselves as a genealogist should belong to any one of the groups we have here on Maoliworld and post genealogy information with this specialized group - there is a place for everything here on Maoliworld and posting a closed discussion in this area of information in regards to genealogy is not the proper placement and it takes up space for other FORUMS welcoming discussion by all.
This is why for the most part, when one has a gift of genealogy to hold for their 'ohana there is generally a humbled and gracious order of protocol to uphold as someone put in charge of a very important treasure for a/their 'ohana. For in my opinion of how I was raised, what kind of respect are you providing the names that you are "putting out there" calling attention to it and "for what purpose"? If they were alive today to see their names posted in a manner not becoming of their own personality or character what would they think? What would they feel? What would they say? Can a genealogist speak for the dead when their name "is out there" for a purpose that might not be of the ones that have passed?
All opinions are welcomed for this discussion will not be a closed one. In my opinion, it is one of importance and should not be taken without seriousness. If you disagree then explain here for this is what a forum is OPEN DISCUSSION...
First and foremost to PULE...now does anyone disagree with this first and foremost rule to the gift one holds in this area? If so why or why not if you are able to share...for some you might just say "because it is so" and that would be a reason...if there are more reasons, please care to explain but do not for any reason compromise anything sacred in respect & honor to and for your 'ohana.
Provide also if you are able to, any key things you know of, that one must bear responsibility as a genealogist. Do you appoint yourself? Are you chosen? Why or Why not...care to provide examples as well?
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Just a comment. My Ohana is not Apou and I have no idea what court case you are referring to. I believe I said I have been doing my family genealogy for thirty years and not that I have been doing genealogies for thirty years. If I was not clear on this, I do apologize. By the way, I have not even considered using my genealogy to possess land.
I am not sure what you mean when you say disinformer. Please explain. I assume you were referring to me only because it was in the same paragraph with my name. Try as I may I can not think of where I may have misinformed you or anyone else for that matter. If my asking you how you are related to a particular person is misinformation then I am at a loss. If it is giving family connections for which I merely wanted to know if your source and mine were different I still don't see misinformation. Perhaps I am missing something somewhere. You have done a lot of research as have many others. You are then well aware that even written sources have conflicts. The Hawaiian historians, Hawaiian newspapers and archives have resources that conflict. One way of trying to shift through these is to communicate with others. This is how we learn.
You have said that you have much information and yet I really have not seen much that I could really use. Why not share your information so others can learn as well. You say that people don't get it but perhaps you need to look at how you present it. Discussions should allow disagreements. This is healthy discussion. Communication should be respectful. There should be no room for name calling or disrespect. Are people problematic because they do not agree or that they respond in anger to what has been said in disrespect of them?
Amelia, I respect your opinions as I expect the same from you. If you disagree with me it is okay. To think that everyone should agree with you would be a unrealistic. Allow the disagreement. Explain your side and let them explain theirs. Here's a suggestion and I do not mean it as negative criticism. Try discussing one subject at a time. Hear the discussion on all sides as to why one agrees or does not agree. This is healthy discussion.
If we as Hawaiians must constantly remind others where we come from then we do not know who we are. We are better than titles. I could give you all my degrees and accomplishments but that is really not important. I learned that a long time ago. What is important is how we treat others. You have much to offer. To be heard you need to also listen. What does problematic mean? Someone who disagrees? Someone who has different ideas? In order to be heard you must state your case clearly so that even the less learned will know what you mean. When you constantly repeat something you don't increase learning you turn it off. Do you simply want to be heard or do you want to be listened to?
How about less name calling, more respect and more fruitful discussions. Share your manao not force it. I say this with Aloha and not anger.
I was not going to say anything, but who cares. It is because of people like you, Ms Gora, that make some of us not want to share our genealogy or mana'o with you.
What I will share is, my mom and aunty belonged to the Hale O Na Alii Society, both are now deceased, and it is my understanding that in order to belong to this society, you needed to show proof that you were of royal lineage. And since both my mom and aunty were members, they did prove this. I rest my case.
You can diss me all you want, I dont care, because I know who I am and where I come from.
But I do give Stephanie, Lana and Kalani credit for doing what is pono and standing up to you when you disrespect them and their ohana. I feel that is true alii style. I only chew my cabbage once and only once, unless you become disrespectful. I am only saying this, because of how I was taught. Certain protocols must be observed in all that we do. The noise you make now, will be heard in the next generation. Thank you for your time
Malama pono
Sharon
Ululani > Sharon KaleioKapiolani MedeirosAugust 18, 2009 at 3:13pm
"But I do give Stephanie, Lana and Kalani credit for doing what is pono and standing up to you when you disrespect them and their ohana. I feel that is true alii style."
Mahalo e Sharon.
Exactly. To diss the iwi/bones whether ali'i or makaainana is to diss ALL of us. Yet there she goes with her stupidity.
My grandmothers [and grandfathers} are all members and/or were members of Hale o Na Alii Society, Royal Order of Kamehameha, AND Kaahumanu Society... just to name a few. My paternal grandmother whom I won't name since Amelia Kuulei Gora likes to poke at, dig up, and/or bleach some alii bones so Im not going to post her name here is STILL a member of Hale o Na Alii Society, Royal Order of Kamehameha, AND Kaahumanu Society and MANY more... so more I laugh at her troublesome PILAU self. My kupuna always told me not to expose all of their bones or else people like Amelia Kuulei Gora going try disturb them... and they're right.
Amelia Kuulei Gora dissed Princess Ruta and Stephanie Naihe Laxton as well as my maternal grandmothe saying that she's "ugly" and that I am a "slut." I don't care if people call me nasty names LOL but do NOT under any circumstances diss the iwi and/or the alii for the WORLD TO SEE. She even dissed Kalani's ancestors some of whom are ali'i but I won't name since she digs up some of their bones and bleaches them and I do not want her to disturb their bones too.
Of course she did not know that I have ali'i bloodline but *you* do not under ANY circumstances diss the iwi and/or the ali'i.
Of course she mistakenly thinks that we care what she thinks of us. We ONLY care what our kupuna think of us and they're extremely happy that we do not allow people like her to come online JUST to diss their bones.
Fortunately many people know what she's been up to here at Maoliworld. They were not surprised that she is an ally of Ken Conklin who is a known anti-Hawaiian who does not respect Hawaiians and their legal heirs' right to their title and "reported" me to him. They are STILL majorly pissed off at her for doing that but like I told them we have to know who our enemies are and when the goes gets tough what do they do?
Amelia Kuulei Gora was so upset at Kalani, Stephanie, and I that instead of discussing things with maturity she reposts part of her posts and closes the post to discussion. That is a blessing. IMHO we need to know what someone would do when cornered and she went to KEN CONKLIN who is an enemy of the Hawaiian people and does not respect the property rights of Hawaiians and their legal heirs so we know her true colors and it speaks volumes. Instead of respecting the iwi and oiwi NO MATTER WHAT she let her pilau decide to turn to Ken Conklin to "report" me which does not sit well with many Hawaiians who have told me that they think much less of her for doing that. I am glad though that we know because it's good to know who our enemies are and how they look. Blessing... in disguise.
Thanks to the ali'i. for the mana that comes from their iwi/bones. They speak loud and clear. *You* do not diss the ali'i. She did just that and continues to do so which is breaking THE KAPU. That may be why Princess Ruta and Naihe are coming out strong because she dissed the Naihe name and iwi/bones. Serves her right but it doesn't surprise me. If you dig up their bones you going end up digging your own grave. Thats why I no mess around with that kine stuff but Amelia Kuulei Gora like try make any kine as usual. She even reposted her response to the forum instead of leaving it in this thread in a failed attempt to try to beat the iwi.
She will never win over the iwi. They have mana that is very powerful and will come from their graves each and every time.
The mana from the iwi repping Moku o Keawe and Maui is VERY powerful and will always come here with a vengeance. That's why she's unsuccessful because the power of their mana. They always find a way and appear at Maoliworld.
Old Hawaiian Style she would be KILLED for dissing the ali'i the way that she does. She seems ignorant to me. She doesn't know kapu. Other ali'i whom I know KNOW the kapu. They do NOT diss the iwi or step on the iwi in a bad way or dig up the bones or TRY to dig up dirt on other people. They also do NOT run to Ken Conklin like how Pilau Amelia did. Fortunately Old Hawaiian Style... Hawaiians talk and more are finding out how pilau she is to the IWI and to the ALI'I.
*You* do NOT diss the iwi and/or alii. Or else... *YOU* PAU! That is why with many ali'i she is PAU.
lol on the A.G's recent FORUM ONE PERSON TALK TO HERSELF ONLY closed discussion entitled Believing in Alii Families - Ours Including Amelia Gora vs. Problematic People (Lana, Kalani, etals.) Posted by Hwnwahine on August 18, 2009 at 1:57am in Culture
Who's the pick on instigator who closes discussions? Why does something like this have to be a ONE PERSON FORUM? lol It was soo quiet for a few days thinking the dust is settled AND THEN IT STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN? I love the beginning of the last paragraph: "...and who is believeable?" Like I guess one is feeling so void that one would have to cry and bellow out to the mountain tops to feel SPECIAL...lol Yeah a "real" sister alright. My point and how the A.G. addresses genealogy as "sister". And what does that prove? And why is Lana, Kalani, and etal all Problematic People when they don't instigate trouble here on Maoliworld - especially in a forum discussion.
To the Best of my knowledge: LANA, KALANI INCLUDING MYSELF AND ETAL...have never ever posted something like this which is nit picking (other than to respond to a post of question which our name was mentioned in a title) which has no purpose to Maoliworld and what its use is for.
Yeah no feel good about herself so she has to put down people and be a one up to feel good...Aye S.O.S. So sad the maturity level. And newbies to Maoliworld wonder why poor A.G .is picked on...HELL-ERR she picks on people first and don't want to accept their opinion on issues or their insight or even mana'o and she starts it up AGAIN.
Freedom of information does not include INSTIGATIVE OR PUT DOWN MEASURES. It has no place here on Maoliworld....GO AWAY ALREADY...GO START YOUR OWN WEBSITE AND CALL IT:
"A.G. Aue World"
Nohealani > HALE O KEAWE-A-HEULU aka: NAIHEAugust 18, 2009 at 11:51pm
Aloha,
I read the "Believing in Alii Families" and was confused as to why I could not reply. Is that what is meant by closing a discussion? Too bad, I think it would have been a good one. I for one really have no interest in belonging to the many societies mentioned - but that is me. I think we need to all realize that many Hawaiians today can indeed trace their genealogies to Alii but an Alii was never one only by blood but by how they took care of their people as well.
Genealogical disputes occurred even in the mid 1800s and early 1900s. Just go through some of the Hawaiian newspapers and you will find conflicts - not just those already translated by McKenzie but those that have yet to be translated. How do we decide which is correct? As an example, the father of Kekuanaoa in history books says that Nahiolea was his father although it does mention Kiilaweau could have been his father. Ruth said that Kiilaweau was Kekuanaoa's father and so does the Hawaiian newspaper Aloha Aina. The Hawaiian newspaper Nu Hou has Nahiolea as the father. In times of old, having "two fathers" gave the child greater mana. As in times of old, one choose the lineage that exalted their own. Different information from different sources and two separate lineages possible. Neither is wrong but which one is truly correct. We wilI never know because even back then, they did not know. I can say that I choose a lineage based on one of these papers. Someone else may choose a lineage based on the other paper. Both use a "reliable" source. We can argue back and forth forever and get "heated" over it on this one person and never resolve it because it can not be resolved.
Many Hawaiians who have done their genealogy received the basis of their genealogy from a Kupuna. The information is often incomplete and so the search begins to fill as many "holes" as possible. We find a written source and think that we have it until someone else comes along and says they too have a source and it is different. So we "argue" about who is more correct. Such a waste of energy. There are conflicts in our history books and in our historical genealogies that we will never be able to resolve. This we need to understand and move on. To argue that one is or is not related to an Alii is really not what's important. Knowing who you are is.
You are sooo correct about the pohaku....which is why I mentioned this in a prior post elsewhere addressing you "coming from the rock you crawled under from"...Mahalo for refreshing Maoliworld as to whom you are. Stand proud and be heard...but malama too because no one means you harm here on Maoliworld...we are here to walk side by side with or without spear in hand. Malama yourself you deserve it with all the unrest you have done on your body to have us see who you are in your countenance. For no matter how many times you change your nic profile name or picture - why no post your picture so others can see who you are as I have. Be proud and post your picture so that we can all see the real you. If you don't have one handy I can post it here if you like. Just let me know because it's public information. Malama, malama, malama..Amene!
Aloha;
Genealogy is an honor to do. I believe I was chosen to do my family's genealogy, because I understand protocol. Not because you show an interest or think you can profit from it.
Thank you Stephanie, it was truly an honor talking to you personally. You put me in the direction I needed to go. I was under the impression, and I was taught, that you need to help. But now I find, I will do my genealogy for my children and their children and so on. I also see that the oppression that I have seen from a person such as Ms. Gora, is a shame.
Ekalamai, I find it offensive to drag the sh-t on this blog and I do mean sh-t Ms. Gora. I dont know who you are, but from the little I see you are a whinner. When the going gets rough, you run and drag others in. If it makes you happy report me, call the popo, I dont really care, cause I know who I am. All I know is, I was chosen to do genealogy by my kupuna's and I do know that PULE is an important factor. I do not step into other genealogy unless there is a valid reason to do so, and even if there is, you follow protocol. I think we all learned it at a very early age, and it is ASK PERMISSION AND WAIT FOR AN ANSWER, DO NOT ASSUME. I know if we did not follow this important rule, the slippah, the hand or the hanger was waiting for your butt. But I dont know how old you are, but for me I come from old school. Oh and if an answer didnt come then you LEAVE IT ALONE. NOT YOURS. I'll close for now until I can think of something else to say. Just be careful how you throw names out there. It is just plain DERESPECTFUL. Mahalo for the time.
Sharon
No worry Aunty Sharon...Amelia Gora can put all of us on her black list or genocide list or hate list and she can post it all over the internet but she's being watched by those higher than us. GUARANTEE! And this includes any of her friends she makes along the way with the same "like mindedness". She steps on the wrong toes that's on her because we have all tried to be cordial but she keeps invading private space and bully her way through and tries to bring in other bullies as well to fight her battles or prove her point. We have all tried to be a friend to Amelia Gora but all she does is pushes us away with her demeanor. She can try to disguise herself by changing profile pictures or changing profile names but eventually you hear the same messages. How pono is that? And for someone doing genealogy for what she may call an "elite list" of history (for her benefit and her movement not for the greater good of all) then let her go at it.
I already know her link to Naihe she has are broken she crosses links to try to make it fit and won't correct it and wants others to either correct theirs to her liking or she claims that the true Naihe's alive today that went underground have no history....who says I say! Let em go we all know who we are and where we came from and that is all that matters. We are no better than the next we are the same with the same color blood even. What's in a name carries responsibility and that is all - we all have our history here in Hawaii and we all played some role in time of our past and we gather here for a sanctuary to talk story, learn, teach but not to disrespect each others lineage koko or not. We can agree to disagree and that is a greater respect we have for one another......listen also to the stories and the links of names will come to you as it should to fit the tree. When Amelia Gora closed the discussion of what she post of my family link where was there room for correction? If I have to open a new forum discussion to correct her how would anyone else know?
From now on if she has a closed discussion which needs to be corrected I won't bother, I won't correct anymore because I made my point. Her 30 yrs of doing genealogy and she can't get a simple basic line off the main ali'i corrrect? I rest my case. I'd give her room for error if she posted an "oh I stand corrected on what I say after a day or so", but she didn't - even 'uhane didn't waken her to tell her to correct it; didn't even make her lose sleep. Now what kine dat? That tells me proper protocol is not in place if even 'uhane can not get through her to make the correction...HELL-ERR!
I apologize to Amelia Gora...I apologize for showing that your 30 years of expertise you claim raises my eyebrows..MmmmHmmmm but that is what 'uhane told me to do to make you see your blindness which can lead to others blindness. You're so loud in your words here and you throw out ali'i surnames like nobody's business and you can sleep at night? MmmmmHmmmm....my eyebrows continue to be raised by things like this. And I give people the benefit of the doubt first and foremost unless they ruffle me up side my head and I didn't deserve it - tells me something is wrong here, not making sense but I let it go now and let you fall or stand naked or clothed IT'S ALL ON YOU! PAU!
On another note for discussion here...it is open to more mana'o and opinion as this is a FORUM.
I am new to Maoliworld and a bit confused as to where one should discuss genealogy. From your post I assume it is elsewhere than here. I am not a genealogist but have done much research over the course of 30 years. I have learned much, not only about my family but history of our people as well. It has been a an enriching experience to say the least. For me Hawaiian genealogies are an important part of who we are as a people. Through different resources one may find conflicting information. I believe it is important to make these right through discussion or at lest to come to some agreement as to its validity. In this way we help each other.
I will look through this site to see where I should be discussing genealogy.
There are groups here on Maoliworld that discuss genealogy so you need to look in the groups list and find them which would be most appropriate for you to discuss and post there instead of here in a forum discussion. And if it is dear to you to also share you can post it to your webpage and do a blog for a more personal experience inviting others for discussion. In my opinion, the best way to come to agreement is with a one on one for this is not a place TO ADVERTISE ONE HAS THE PERFECT AND ONLY GENEALOGICAL RECORD that should be used for all of koko. Everywhere you turn someone is saying they have a best resource. Sharing and discussing is good but do this in the genealogy groups where it belongs for education/culture/history. Everything in its place. Whether genealogy is truth and connection (?) that is between the parties in a rightful place. I for one will niele to a specific place if interested but I find it rude and displaced if you provide a discussion forum on family and their names - too public of a forum, genealogy is much more personal in my opinion. It's a treasure find for most which is what I see here those looking to connect - while you attempt to connect it doesn't make the walk pono, you are just walking and searching like in an easter egg hunt...so hunt where appropriate because the more you dig the more you will find branches that might be too weak to be the strength to sit and wala'au. Connection will come if it is meant to be...that's my opinion...genealogy is not something you shout out in a crowd...have respect for the people you are calling in their names you post..MmmmHmmm.
Replies
Just a comment. My Ohana is not Apou and I have no idea what court case you are referring to. I believe I said I have been doing my family genealogy for thirty years and not that I have been doing genealogies for thirty years. If I was not clear on this, I do apologize. By the way, I have not even considered using my genealogy to possess land.
I am not sure what you mean when you say disinformer. Please explain. I assume you were referring to me only because it was in the same paragraph with my name. Try as I may I can not think of where I may have misinformed you or anyone else for that matter. If my asking you how you are related to a particular person is misinformation then I am at a loss. If it is giving family connections for which I merely wanted to know if your source and mine were different I still don't see misinformation. Perhaps I am missing something somewhere. You have done a lot of research as have many others. You are then well aware that even written sources have conflicts. The Hawaiian historians, Hawaiian newspapers and archives have resources that conflict. One way of trying to shift through these is to communicate with others. This is how we learn.
You have said that you have much information and yet I really have not seen much that I could really use. Why not share your information so others can learn as well. You say that people don't get it but perhaps you need to look at how you present it. Discussions should allow disagreements. This is healthy discussion. Communication should be respectful. There should be no room for name calling or disrespect. Are people problematic because they do not agree or that they respond in anger to what has been said in disrespect of them?
Amelia, I respect your opinions as I expect the same from you. If you disagree with me it is okay. To think that everyone should agree with you would be a unrealistic. Allow the disagreement. Explain your side and let them explain theirs. Here's a suggestion and I do not mean it as negative criticism. Try discussing one subject at a time. Hear the discussion on all sides as to why one agrees or does not agree. This is healthy discussion.
If we as Hawaiians must constantly remind others where we come from then we do not know who we are. We are better than titles. I could give you all my degrees and accomplishments but that is really not important. I learned that a long time ago. What is important is how we treat others. You have much to offer. To be heard you need to also listen. What does problematic mean? Someone who disagrees? Someone who has different ideas? In order to be heard you must state your case clearly so that even the less learned will know what you mean. When you constantly repeat something you don't increase learning you turn it off. Do you simply want to be heard or do you want to be listened to?
How about less name calling, more respect and more fruitful discussions. Share your manao not force it. I say this with Aloha and not anger.
Nohealani
What I will share is, my mom and aunty belonged to the Hale O Na Alii Society, both are now deceased, and it is my understanding that in order to belong to this society, you needed to show proof that you were of royal lineage. And since both my mom and aunty were members, they did prove this. I rest my case.
You can diss me all you want, I dont care, because I know who I am and where I come from.
But I do give Stephanie, Lana and Kalani credit for doing what is pono and standing up to you when you disrespect them and their ohana. I feel that is true alii style. I only chew my cabbage once and only once, unless you become disrespectful. I am only saying this, because of how I was taught. Certain protocols must be observed in all that we do. The noise you make now, will be heard in the next generation. Thank you for your time
Malama pono
Sharon
Mahalo e Sharon.
Exactly. To diss the iwi/bones whether ali'i or makaainana is to diss ALL of us. Yet there she goes with her stupidity.
My grandmothers [and grandfathers} are all members and/or were members of Hale o Na Alii Society, Royal Order of Kamehameha, AND Kaahumanu Society... just to name a few. My paternal grandmother whom I won't name since Amelia Kuulei Gora likes to poke at, dig up, and/or bleach some alii bones so Im not going to post her name here is STILL a member of Hale o Na Alii Society, Royal Order of Kamehameha, AND Kaahumanu Society and MANY more... so more I laugh at her troublesome PILAU self. My kupuna always told me not to expose all of their bones or else people like Amelia Kuulei Gora going try disturb them... and they're right.
Amelia Kuulei Gora dissed Princess Ruta and Stephanie Naihe Laxton as well as my maternal grandmothe saying that she's "ugly" and that I am a "slut." I don't care if people call me nasty names LOL but do NOT under any circumstances diss the iwi and/or the alii for the WORLD TO SEE. She even dissed Kalani's ancestors some of whom are ali'i but I won't name since she digs up some of their bones and bleaches them and I do not want her to disturb their bones too.
Of course she did not know that I have ali'i bloodline but *you* do not under ANY circumstances diss the iwi and/or the ali'i.
Of course she mistakenly thinks that we care what she thinks of us. We ONLY care what our kupuna think of us and they're extremely happy that we do not allow people like her to come online JUST to diss their bones.
Fortunately many people know what she's been up to here at Maoliworld. They were not surprised that she is an ally of Ken Conklin who is a known anti-Hawaiian who does not respect Hawaiians and their legal heirs' right to their title and "reported" me to him. They are STILL majorly pissed off at her for doing that but like I told them we have to know who our enemies are and when the goes gets tough what do they do?
Amelia Kuulei Gora was so upset at Kalani, Stephanie, and I that instead of discussing things with maturity she reposts part of her posts and closes the post to discussion. That is a blessing. IMHO we need to know what someone would do when cornered and she went to KEN CONKLIN who is an enemy of the Hawaiian people and does not respect the property rights of Hawaiians and their legal heirs so we know her true colors and it speaks volumes. Instead of respecting the iwi and oiwi NO MATTER WHAT she let her pilau decide to turn to Ken Conklin to "report" me which does not sit well with many Hawaiians who have told me that they think much less of her for doing that. I am glad though that we know because it's good to know who our enemies are and how they look. Blessing... in disguise.
Thanks to the ali'i. for the mana that comes from their iwi/bones. They speak loud and clear. *You* do not diss the ali'i. She did just that and continues to do so which is breaking THE KAPU. That may be why Princess Ruta and Naihe are coming out strong because she dissed the Naihe name and iwi/bones. Serves her right but it doesn't surprise me. If you dig up their bones you going end up digging your own grave. Thats why I no mess around with that kine stuff but Amelia Kuulei Gora like try make any kine as usual. She even reposted her response to the forum instead of leaving it in this thread in a failed attempt to try to beat the iwi.
She will never win over the iwi. They have mana that is very powerful and will come from their graves each and every time.
The mana from the iwi repping Moku o Keawe and Maui is VERY powerful and will always come here with a vengeance. That's why she's unsuccessful because the power of their mana. They always find a way and appear at Maoliworld.
Old Hawaiian Style she would be KILLED for dissing the ali'i the way that she does. She seems ignorant to me. She doesn't know kapu. Other ali'i whom I know KNOW the kapu. They do NOT diss the iwi or step on the iwi in a bad way or dig up the bones or TRY to dig up dirt on other people. They also do NOT run to Ken Conklin like how Pilau Amelia did. Fortunately Old Hawaiian Style... Hawaiians talk and more are finding out how pilau she is to the IWI and to the ALI'I.
*You* do NOT diss the iwi and/or alii. Or else... *YOU* PAU! That is why with many ali'i she is PAU.
Malama pono, Lana
Who's the pick on instigator who closes discussions? Why does something like this have to be a ONE PERSON FORUM? lol It was soo quiet for a few days thinking the dust is settled AND THEN IT STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN? I love the beginning of the last paragraph: "...and who is believeable?" Like I guess one is feeling so void that one would have to cry and bellow out to the mountain tops to feel SPECIAL...lol Yeah a "real" sister alright. My point and how the A.G. addresses genealogy as "sister". And what does that prove? And why is Lana, Kalani, and etal all Problematic People when they don't instigate trouble here on Maoliworld - especially in a forum discussion.
To the Best of my knowledge: LANA, KALANI INCLUDING MYSELF AND ETAL...have never ever posted something like this which is nit picking (other than to respond to a post of question which our name was mentioned in a title) which has no purpose to Maoliworld and what its use is for.
Yeah no feel good about herself so she has to put down people and be a one up to feel good...Aye S.O.S. So sad the maturity level. And newbies to Maoliworld wonder why poor A.G .is picked on...HELL-ERR she picks on people first and don't want to accept their opinion on issues or their insight or even mana'o and she starts it up AGAIN.
Freedom of information does not include INSTIGATIVE OR PUT DOWN MEASURES. It has no place here on Maoliworld....GO AWAY ALREADY...GO START YOUR OWN WEBSITE AND CALL IT:
"A.G. Aue World"
I read the "Believing in Alii Families" and was confused as to why I could not reply. Is that what is meant by closing a discussion? Too bad, I think it would have been a good one. I for one really have no interest in belonging to the many societies mentioned - but that is me. I think we need to all realize that many Hawaiians today can indeed trace their genealogies to Alii but an Alii was never one only by blood but by how they took care of their people as well.
Genealogical disputes occurred even in the mid 1800s and early 1900s. Just go through some of the Hawaiian newspapers and you will find conflicts - not just those already translated by McKenzie but those that have yet to be translated. How do we decide which is correct? As an example, the father of Kekuanaoa in history books says that Nahiolea was his father although it does mention Kiilaweau could have been his father. Ruth said that Kiilaweau was Kekuanaoa's father and so does the Hawaiian newspaper Aloha Aina. The Hawaiian newspaper Nu Hou has Nahiolea as the father. In times of old, having "two fathers" gave the child greater mana. As in times of old, one choose the lineage that exalted their own. Different information from different sources and two separate lineages possible. Neither is wrong but which one is truly correct. We wilI never know because even back then, they did not know. I can say that I choose a lineage based on one of these papers. Someone else may choose a lineage based on the other paper. Both use a "reliable" source. We can argue back and forth forever and get "heated" over it on this one person and never resolve it because it can not be resolved.
Many Hawaiians who have done their genealogy received the basis of their genealogy from a Kupuna. The information is often incomplete and so the search begins to fill as many "holes" as possible. We find a written source and think that we have it until someone else comes along and says they too have a source and it is different. So we "argue" about who is more correct. Such a waste of energy. There are conflicts in our history books and in our historical genealogies that we will never be able to resolve. This we need to understand and move on. To argue that one is or is not related to an Alii is really not what's important. Knowing who you are is.
Mahalo,
Nohealani
Genealogy is an honor to do. I believe I was chosen to do my family's genealogy, because I understand protocol. Not because you show an interest or think you can profit from it.
Thank you Stephanie, it was truly an honor talking to you personally. You put me in the direction I needed to go. I was under the impression, and I was taught, that you need to help. But now I find, I will do my genealogy for my children and their children and so on. I also see that the oppression that I have seen from a person such as Ms. Gora, is a shame.
Ekalamai, I find it offensive to drag the sh-t on this blog and I do mean sh-t Ms. Gora. I dont know who you are, but from the little I see you are a whinner. When the going gets rough, you run and drag others in. If it makes you happy report me, call the popo, I dont really care, cause I know who I am. All I know is, I was chosen to do genealogy by my kupuna's and I do know that PULE is an important factor. I do not step into other genealogy unless there is a valid reason to do so, and even if there is, you follow protocol. I think we all learned it at a very early age, and it is ASK PERMISSION AND WAIT FOR AN ANSWER, DO NOT ASSUME. I know if we did not follow this important rule, the slippah, the hand or the hanger was waiting for your butt. But I dont know how old you are, but for me I come from old school. Oh and if an answer didnt come then you LEAVE IT ALONE. NOT YOURS. I'll close for now until I can think of something else to say. Just be careful how you throw names out there. It is just plain DERESPECTFUL. Mahalo for the time.
Sharon
I already know her link to Naihe she has are broken she crosses links to try to make it fit and won't correct it and wants others to either correct theirs to her liking or she claims that the true Naihe's alive today that went underground have no history....who says I say! Let em go we all know who we are and where we came from and that is all that matters. We are no better than the next we are the same with the same color blood even. What's in a name carries responsibility and that is all - we all have our history here in Hawaii and we all played some role in time of our past and we gather here for a sanctuary to talk story, learn, teach but not to disrespect each others lineage koko or not. We can agree to disagree and that is a greater respect we have for one another......listen also to the stories and the links of names will come to you as it should to fit the tree. When Amelia Gora closed the discussion of what she post of my family link where was there room for correction? If I have to open a new forum discussion to correct her how would anyone else know?
From now on if she has a closed discussion which needs to be corrected I won't bother, I won't correct anymore because I made my point. Her 30 yrs of doing genealogy and she can't get a simple basic line off the main ali'i corrrect? I rest my case. I'd give her room for error if she posted an "oh I stand corrected on what I say after a day or so", but she didn't - even 'uhane didn't waken her to tell her to correct it; didn't even make her lose sleep. Now what kine dat? That tells me proper protocol is not in place if even 'uhane can not get through her to make the correction...HELL-ERR!
I apologize to Amelia Gora...I apologize for showing that your 30 years of expertise you claim raises my eyebrows..MmmmHmmmm but that is what 'uhane told me to do to make you see your blindness which can lead to others blindness. You're so loud in your words here and you throw out ali'i surnames like nobody's business and you can sleep at night? MmmmmHmmmm....my eyebrows continue to be raised by things like this. And I give people the benefit of the doubt first and foremost unless they ruffle me up side my head and I didn't deserve it - tells me something is wrong here, not making sense but I let it go now and let you fall or stand naked or clothed IT'S ALL ON YOU! PAU!
On another note for discussion here...it is open to more mana'o and opinion as this is a FORUM.
I will look through this site to see where I should be discussing genealogy.
Aloha,
Nohealani
There are groups here on Maoliworld that discuss genealogy so you need to look in the groups list and find them which would be most appropriate for you to discuss and post there instead of here in a forum discussion. And if it is dear to you to also share you can post it to your webpage and do a blog for a more personal experience inviting others for discussion. In my opinion, the best way to come to agreement is with a one on one for this is not a place TO ADVERTISE ONE HAS THE PERFECT AND ONLY GENEALOGICAL RECORD that should be used for all of koko. Everywhere you turn someone is saying they have a best resource. Sharing and discussing is good but do this in the genealogy groups where it belongs for education/culture/history. Everything in its place. Whether genealogy is truth and connection (?) that is between the parties in a rightful place. I for one will niele to a specific place if interested but I find it rude and displaced if you provide a discussion forum on family and their names - too public of a forum, genealogy is much more personal in my opinion. It's a treasure find for most which is what I see here those looking to connect - while you attempt to connect it doesn't make the walk pono, you are just walking and searching like in an easter egg hunt...so hunt where appropriate because the more you dig the more you will find branches that might be too weak to be the strength to sit and wala'au. Connection will come if it is meant to be...that's my opinion...genealogy is not something you shout out in a crowd...have respect for the people you are calling in their names you post..MmmmHmmm.
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