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Facebook Info: Royal Families and Problematic Issues Revealed........

Posted by Amelia Gora on September 6, 2015 at 12:00pm in Politics
Isaac Harp
14 hrs · Waimea, HI · Edited

ALERT-ALERT-ALERT: I have an extremely important situation to which EVERYONE needs to be aware!!

Group member, Amelia Gora has been trying to convince me for the past few days that the 1852 Hawaiian Kingdom Constitution is the valid Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom today. Amelia shared some information with me but not evidence of such quality that I could validate her claim.

I have been searching for days to locate reliable evidence to confirm or deny Amelia's claim, and because of my inability/lack of skill to locate reliable evidence to support Amelia's claim, and the lack of group members weighing in with evidence either way, I took it upon myself to continue recognizing the 1864 as the legitimate constitution.

Kumu Kanawai shared Article 105 of the 1852 Constitution, which specifies the process required to amend the 1852 Constitution. This caused me to continue my search for information to learn if the 1864 Constitution was lawfully adopted or not.

I just came upon some very interesting information from, of all places, Wikipedia. I normally don’t put much faith in Wikipedia because of propaganda I found there on the TMT project. Although this is true, the information on the 1864 Constitution was intriguing. Here’s what it said:

Background
Kamehameha V ascended the throne in 1863. He was a firm believer that the king should be the person firmly in control of Hawaii's government, as it had been done in Hawaii for hundreds of years before the passage of the 1840 and 1852 constitutions. Kamehameha V (as well as his predecessor, Kamehameha IV was often irritated by the controls on his power by the 1852 constitution.

Thus, when Kamehameha V ascended the throne, he refused to take an oath to the 1852 constitution. Instead, he called for a constitutional convention.

The Constitutional Convention
For the convention, delegates were elected by the population. They met at Kawaiahaʻo on July 7, 1864.

Kamehameha V, conferring with his advisors, drafted a constitution and presented it to the delegates of the Constitutional Convention. The members of the convention, however, were not able to agree on Kamehameha V's constitution. Their main concern was of Kamehameha V's new voting requirements.

Kamehameha V quickly grew impatient and dissolved the convention. Then, he simply announced that his constitution would replace the 1852 constitution as the ultimate law of the land, even though Kamehameha V's actions did not follow the provisions set by the 1852 constitution on amending the constitution.

Here’s the Wikipedia link in case anyone wants to read what is says directly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/…/1864_Constitution_of_the_Kingdom…

Because there were no references cited in Wikipedia related to this, my search for evidence continued and I ended up here: http://punawaiola.org/

I located the Meeting Minutes of the Privy Council, which met on August 20th and August 25th 1864.

On August 20th 1864, Kamehameha V signed the 1864 Constitution and took the Oath to support the same. Kamehameha V proceeded in administering the Oath to G. M. Robertson, acting Chancellor of the Kingdom and Chief Justice, and commanded G. M. Robertson to proceeded in administering the oath to all the Ministers, and to such of the Members of the Privy Council who having already read the Constitution were prepared to take it.

After the Oath was given to those who were prepared to take it, C.G. Hopkins, Minister of Interior moved an adjournment until August 25th at 11 A.M. to give time to other members of the Privy Council to read the new Constitution. This motion being seconded the Council adjourned accordingly.

The Privy Council reconvened at 11:00 AM on Aug 25th 1864. Kamehameha V stated that this meeting was called on as an Adjourned meeting from that of the 20th for the purpose of Administering the Oath to those who desired to take it and whom did not take it on the meeting of the 20th when the New Constitution was proclaimed.

All remaining individuals but one took the Oath on August 25th. The Privy Council convened at 11:00 AM Sept 22nd 1864 and the King expressed his wish that the Oath should be administered to Privy Council member, Theodore Heuck. This was carried out by G.M. Robertson. Theodore Heuck was also the architect for Queen’s Hospital and the first architect for the Royal Mausoleum at Mauna Ala.

So after all this explaining what am I saying? What I’m saying is that I now believe that there is sufficient evidence to validate Amelia’s claim, supported by Kumu Kanawai, that the 1864 was unlawfully adopted and that the 1852 Constitution remains the lawful Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom.

This matter is now open for discussion. Question, should we recognize the 1852 Constitution as the lawful Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom?

Mahalo for your patience and understanding, Paka

P.S., I tried my best to record the Privy Council meetings mentioned above and will add it to our group Files.

1864 Constitution of the Kingdom of Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Constitution of 1864 of the Kingdom of Hawaii was a rewrite of the 1852 constitution issued by King Kamehameha III. It dramatically changed the way Hawaii's government worked by increasing the power of the king and changing the way the kingdom's legislature worked. It was Hawaii's constitution f…
EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

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  • Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 1:49pm

    Another thread:

    Isaac Harp uploaded a file.
    15 hrs

    Privy Council Meetings regarding unlawful process to adopt the 1864 Constitution. This process did not comply with requirements to amend the 1852 Constitution as required under Article 105 of the 1852 Constitution.

    • Amelia Gora > Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 1:50pm
      • Ron Cawthon Awesome records! the internet is amazing! kalamai Paka I think folks are not reading what actually happened, yes there were some issues about the 1864 constitution, but at the end of the day, they agreed to to an oath to the 1864 constitution, it was never declared void, nor was the one in 1887.
        1 hr · Like
      • Amelia Gora Ron Cawthon i know that you are a pure haole and your friend is Sonny Paalua who you defend..... altho your input is appreciated, it must be pointed out that it was the poe haole who were problematic when it came to the affairs of the government..... hope everyone realizes that the Archives, Records, etc. was shut down for two (2) years after the dethronement of our Queen and Tampering, etc. is what happened......my former father-in-law now deceased used to complain to me about the destruction of important records at the Archives by Agnes Conrad, et. als...... your interest is appreciated but am more interested in what our kanaka maoli have to say because due to the years of suppression, disregard, genocide, etc. it is they who have an important say and are the voters of the House of Representatives......unless your ancestors were here prior to the dethronement of our Queen and were parties to signing the KUE Petition....think your comments should just be taken in, logged, and viewed as needed...... oh, i was surprised to see you at the Bureau of Conveyances ....and wondered why your two followers made off with out documents and after you folks discussed it returned it to us......and noticed one of your friends requested for the whole set of documents of Queen Liliuokalani's Trust deed and had it certified.....and your friend wasn't Hawaiian either..............hmmmm....everyone, Queen Liliuokalani denied signing a Trust Deed with the haole and my great great grandmother was her true Trustee....am just suspicious when non kanaka maoli snoop into our affairs..........Red Flags are Up! ...just saying..........fyihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf-IS08VFfU
        4 mins · Like · Remove Preview
  • Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 1:23pm

     another discusssion:

    Isaac Harp
    Yesterday at 3:19am

    Final opportunity to weigh in on Question #3 before we move on.

    THE QUESTION:
    Do we agree to elect Representatives as described under 1884 Compiled Laws of the Hawaiian Kingdom, ARTICLE XXXII-OF THE ELECTION OF REPRESENTATIVES, ELECTION DISTRICTS §780?

    DISCUSSION:
    In accordance with the law, we can have a total of 40 elected Representatives of the people, of which the distribution of 26 has already been determined by law.

    The remaining 14 shall be distributed according to the 2014 US census distribution of Native Hawaiians and Other Pacific Islanders. Additional Representatives shall represent the district(s) with the largest population increase(s).

    Since everyone has had a couple of days to review the information shared by members of the group, including myself, we should all be able to respond with a simple yes or no. Those who wish to respond please do. We will move on to another question on Monday.

    Mahalo for your participation in this process! Paka

    • Amelia Gora > Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 1:24pm
      • Amelia Gora > Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 1:25pm
        • Amelia Gora > Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 1:26pm
          • Momi Greene We have to
            22 hrs · Like · 1
          • Kumu Kanawai Point of order. Before we make complicated decisions not applying to us. We need to know who is in our body politics, and what our rights are. And to eliminate the false dicotomy, like Mivan Lam said at manoa. See YouTube. Article 4.
            All men shal            l have the right, in an orderly and peaceable manner to assemble, without arms, to consult upon the common good; give instructions to their Representatives; and to petition the King or the Legislature for redress of grievances. True alo-ha (life-upfront) in your face petition with our names on it, and not hiding in a ballot box. like the. Ku e and Liliuokalani's constitution, our Queen answered her subjects petition for a new constitution. Which should be considered a valid constitution, enacted or not all of our acquired rights are cumulative.
            22 hrs · Like · 2
          • Amelia Gora > Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 1:28pm
            • Susan Rosier Yes Kumu Kanawai I understand you say and feel this exercise will aquaint all with what the constitution is. It has been a long time hidden from the people that there even WAS a constitution and many still do not believe that the Kingdom still exists!! EAducation is always helpful and discussions such as this one allows everyone to see the wisdom of what was established so long ago to preserve the Kingdom for the Hawaiian Nation. Mahalo for listening to my opinion!!!!
              19 hrs · Like · 3
            • Amelia Gora Queen Liliuokalani destroyed her constitution....the one at the archives shows "a purported' constitution...............in other words, she did not write it and the attorneys who did had that one recognized by Congress............ according to an article that our family purchased from Greece, it says that the Queen destroyed the Constitution, which means she returned the Hawaiian government to a Monarchy government.................the 1852 Constitution stands....
              17 hrs · Like · 3
            • Isaac Harp Mahalo to everyone for sharing your mana'o! I remain firmly in the belief that we must 1) determine if the 1852 or 1864 Constitution is the lawful Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom today, 2) restore our government according to provisions of our lawful Constitution and the 1884 Compiled Laws of the Kingdom, and any pertinent laws that may have been adopted after adoption of the 1884 Compiles Laws of the Kingdom, if any, and 3) amend the Constitution and laws to what we require in the 21st Century, including considering what might have been the intentions of our Queen, Liliuokalani. Mahalo, Paka
              15 hrs · Like · 4
            • Amelia Gora > Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 1:29pm
              •  
              • Isaac Harp Aloha Kumu Kanawai, I'm not sure how to interpret the meaning in your point of order about making decisions not applying to us. Could you please elaborate so my simple mind can comprehend what you mean? Also, I'm not sure what opinion Susan Rosier made that you listened to either. Mahalo, Paka and good night wink emoticon
                11 hrs · Like · 1
              • Susan Rosier Isaac Harp I meant listening to my opinion posted above in the same paragraph noting the need for understanding of the constitutions and the laws that were in place in the 1800's. They have been hidden for so long that most people didn't even know they existed. Through processes like this one we are becoming educated .. article by article ... brainstorming piece by piece. Mahalo Paka for leading us through this!
                7 hrs · Like · 3
              • Isaac Harp Aloha Susan Rosier, Mahalo for clarifying. Yes, it is very important for all of us, myself included, to understand the history of our Constitutions and laws so that we can make informed decisions as we walk forward together. I am not leading anyone, I walk with you. Paka
                5 hrs · Like · 3
              • Leith Anderson We cannot get stuck on non issues. Imua Paka. My aumakua await. Kupuna council. The ones who do not want
                2 hrs · Like · 1
  • Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 12:50pm
    • 5 hrs · Like
    • Amelia Gora sai is scary,,he stole the kaai...hes a mason,..etc
      5 hrs · Like
    • Isaac Harp Aloha Ron, I think we need to focus on reaching agreement on moving forward under either the 1852 Constitution or the 1864 Constitution as no other Constitution beyond that has any legitimacy. Because the 1864 Constitution was the Constitution utilize...See More
      5 hrs · Like
    • Isaac Harp Aloha Tim Reis, you can view a copy of the Draft 1893 Liliuokalani Constitution here: http://www.pixi.com/~kingdom/1893.htmlAlthough it is view-able it is not "usable" in our effort to restore our government. It will be valuable for consideration when our government is ready to amend whatever Constitution we agree on to restore our government. Mahalo, Paka
      Proposed Constitution of Hawaii 1893
      A 2. All men are free to worship God according to the dictates of their own consciences; but this sacred privilege hereby secured shall not be so construed as to justify acts of licentiousness or practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of the Kingdom.
      PIXI.COM

    • Amelia Gora > Amelia Gora September 6, 2015 at 12:51pm
      • Amelia Gora good luck...those who were lawbreakers were conspirators since wm lee ...btw sai was also paid by oha 4 a book project ...
        5 hrs · Like
      • Isaac Harp Aloha Amelia Gora, Although you may view Keani Sai as scary, could you please put that aside and consider his defense of the 1864 Constitution, as well as the fact that the Kingdom operated under the 1864 Constitution for over a decade? Mahalo for trying because if you can agree it will help us to move forward together. My greatest hope in this effort is that we can move forward together because together we have mana! Aloha, Paka
        4 hrs · Like · 1
      • Amelia Gora the only part lacking is the temp voted in positions representing the people and our protectorates all in place already....the truebloods r in place
        4 hrs · Like
      • Robert Freitas Jr. Hmmmmm, this is very interesting.
        4 hrs · Like
      • Tim Reis Amelia, thank you for sharing your opinion.
        In my opinion, he has made it possible for us to have this discussion, by educating our lahui and the International community.

        Yes, his dissertation is based on the works of all aloha aina before him. It is not his alone.

        Ko'u mana'o
        Mahalo
        4 hrs · Like · 1
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