Posted by Tane on September 24, 2009 at 4:28am in Politics
Arguing points and how to disspel them regarding Hawai'i independence.
How often do we hear these arguments:
1. If not the U.S. another country would take over Hawai'i.
I always ask them, "Why?" They then look befuddled. I continue with the fact that the argument point began in 1826 when U.S. President John Quincy Adams made that statement because they were afraid of British and French influence which Hawai'i may lean toward. After Cook revealed where Hawai'i was, other europeans wanted to see for themselves. The U.S. did and coveted the Islands because of its manifest destiny doctrines and imperialistic expansion of its country. They needed Hawai'i as an expendable outpost to protect their interests on the west coast of the North American continent. The other fact was that if they had Hawai'i it would help in its drive for naval power in the Pacific as a Johnny-come-lately nation vying for supremacy in the Pacific and competing with the other European nations already in the Pacific. With Hawai'i, they were competing for influence and hoped we would voluntarily annex to the U.S. and break its ties with Great Britain.
2. If it wasn't for the U.S. we'd still be in our grass shacks and if the U.S. leaves, we'd be going back to the grass shacks again. We built Hawai'i as a nation.
This is more asinine than the first argument. First of all, who was their boss? The King of course! Whatever the King wants; he gets. It was the close friendship that Kamehameha the Great and Ka'ahumanu had with British subject, Capt. George Vancouver; and they picked his brains about Europe and how each country related to each other. The King decided to emulate their system. Our monarchs chose to move in a direction compatible with all nations around the world and found common ground of which to relate to other nations and earned itself as an equal and not subjected to any other nation; particularly the U.S.A. The Hawaiian Kingdom became one of the most modern and progressive nation in the world at that time. Later during the Queen's reign, Hawai'i was one of the richest per capita countries throughout the world.
The rural areas of the U.S. was much like Hawaii'i's rural areas filled with farmers and shanties. The city was just as comparable as any in Europe or the U.S. In fact, our conditions here in Hawai'i was superior to those in the U.S. the only difference is that the U.S. is a large continental country and their military has been built up as an aggressor with an expansive population. Hawai'i is larger than four of the states in the U.S.
3. Hawai'i will be a racist country with only Kanaka maoli.
Au contraire! In the 1890 census, 84.4% of the Hawaiian subjects were Kanaka maoli and 15.6% were of non-Kanaka maoli subjects. The rest of the residents were foreigners from all over the world; including the U.S. We are speaking of nationality and not ethnicity. Racism is a white race problem borne from its Manifest Destiny doctrines that was based on the Papa Bulls of the Roman Catholic Church. The U.S. mainstream society is a WASP white-supremacy oligarchy still struggling with its Black and White problem. The Hawaiian Kingdom, a Polynesian-Hawaiian mainstream society is inclusive and never had that problem.
4. What will Hawai'i do for their economy once the military and tourism leave?
We'd be doing pretty much what we are already doing like any other nation. In this case, the U.S. has taken hostile control of our islands and its economy. These are blatant violations of the laws of occupation and a disregard our our neutrality status. Businesses in our territory will be under our control and policies; not that of the U.S. Since hostile occupiers and their citizens are not subjects of the Kingdom of Hawai'i, they would need visas to remain for a specified limit or relocate back to their own country the other option would be to naturalize to the Kingdom of Hawai'i. The U.S. military would have to de-occupy and Hawai'i would re-establish it's own military. Tourism would continue but under our control and policies and not that of the U.S. There would be more room for farmers who would produce much of the food here. We would regulate and control imports and exports. We already have subjects of the kingdom with expertise in all the fields. So, what's the problem? None that I can see!
One needs to regain one's confidence of being a Hawaii national/subject/citizen rather than allow oneself to be brainwashed, conditioned, and propagandized into believing otherwise. Stand up as a proud Hawai'i national/subject and be a credit to your country.
What other points do they bring up that is of any consequence?
Tane
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A'oia! Also we are the first country ever to elect a monarch twice; yet alone once. Our country is so unique! I hope everyone is looking at other countries to learn lessons from it as to what can and cannot work in our system and what is compatible to our value system. It will be our prerogative.
Which brings up what I think is the #1 pseudo-argument that some people make and that is that our nation no longer exists. They try to discredit its existence. A few have told me that I think it exists because I went to UH-Manoa Hawaiian Studies. Note that I attended UH but only during one summer for English... never Hawaiian Studies... and I graduated from the University of Washington which teaches what... hardly any Hawaiian history LOL... so more it makes me laugh.
While some people will engage in conversations and/or debates with these people though... I do not engage in debates with stupid people. Instead I ignore them but then everyone picks and choose their own battles and battling with stupid people is not on my list of "things to do before I die."
Ululani, but even a stupid dog can learn new tricks, 'aka'aka. There is a fine line between stupid and ignorant. I think most is ignorant and a few truly stupid (those we no waste time). My personal strategy when dealing with the ignorant is to first express the wonderful qualities of our people, and the accomplishments of our Kingdom. I have leanred by sad experience that when I reveal too quickly my animosity of what the U.S. did to our Kingdom, I tend to get them on a defensive and consequently they remain ignorant. Now, I'll 1st discuss the accomplishments and allow them to ask the questions that will allow them to come to their own conclusion of the evils that jammed it up for us. I have a desire to help educate all that can learn of the wonderful accomplishments of the Kingdom of Hawaii. I appreciate Tane's mana'o for this thread. It is good!! Our history is actually an example to the world that there is such a thing as Pono. Our kupuna has perceived it and achieved it. Ua mau ka ea o ka 'aina i ka pono!
IMHO it is different for oiwi women: Kane rule the land... while wahine rule the uterus (which of course changed with Queen Lili'uokalani which some "men" no respect.)
To me oiwi women *have* to be more careful when it comes to engaging in conversations and/or debates with some "men." In this case these stupid "men" can do stupid things to us so some of us have to be careful.
Then again my perspective is one that I was personally injured by a stupid "man" so I know what a consequence can be (i.e. death.) (I was run over by a stupid man and almost died because of his stupidity. That's why I do not engage in convos with them. I would rather survive.)
IMHO for kane I think it is significantly different....
Hui e Ululani, I now understand your perspective. It is valid. Mahalo for sharing. Thank you for not placing me into the "stupdid" category of kane whereby I am fortunate to receive clarification of your point of view. Unfortunately, there are those lolo's out there. I blelieve they are a minority (hopefully). Hawaiian women today hold the oppurtunity to represent the legacy of great women our kupuna has established. Yes, it's true to be wise and safe. Remember however, we are all equal in the eyes of Akua. No one determines who has the right to stand more than ourselves. We live our own lives justifying our own right to stand and speak. Mahalo hou no kou mana'o
I didn't mean it in a mean or rude way, should not have been my usual vague self, and should have been more specific when I typed, "Instead I ignore them but then everyone picks and choose their own battles and battling with stupid people is not on my list of "things to do before I die." --- because I was close to death and I do not wish to be there again any time soon. It was due to stupid men so it was at a very early age when I learned what *men* are capable of doing.
But ae... I definitely agree with you that there are those lolo's out there. They are usually non-oiwi males *not oiwi males* who argue with oiwi about Hawaiian independence. In my experience too those Hawaiian men whom I know have always been able to handle themselves. They can "hold their own" so I mean no disrespect to da kane. For example I have two brothers (one older and one younger both --- Hilo Born.) They hold their own and respect oiwi women. Unfortunately not everyone is raised to respect oiwi women or *women* for that matter. With the way some of them address women... wow just wow. Aue more like it....
Physically too... I know that pound for pound I will never be able to squat or bench as much as an oiwi man or any man for that matter. So in person.. face to face... I know how *men* can be: They can be *ruthless* to oiwi women. And when it comes to the lolos who argue with oiwi about Hawaiian sovereignty, independence, etc... they are very ruthless to oiwi women.
Our Kingdom is also the first kingdom in world history where a monarch created a Constitution giving rights to the citizens, without a revolution. Our Ali'i loved the people as we did them. mahalo nui loa e ka'u hoaloha akamai! Mo Amo fo da walk!
Our Alii and our people were all Ohana. Not only did our Alii recognized, gave and protected by the Constitution the rights of our people, but our Alii gave lands to our people without a revolution. Those rights of our people are still deeply rooted in the constitutional laws of the Hawaiian Kingdom. The rights of our people to homestead their lands as in the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act comes from Hawaiian Kingdom laws, not American law. The Trust concept of the Public Lands Trust is rooted in Hawaiian Kingdom law. Also by the Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom, Slavery was outlawed. Our Alii and our people did not have to go into a Civil War to know that Slavery was needed to be outlawed in the Kingdom.
Long Live The Hawaiian Kingdom, o Pomaikaiokalani
The Poverty of Philosophy
Posted by Te Ngako-o-Te-Rangi - on September 25, 2009 at 2:00pm
Read his blog. It's things many of us have been stating and thinking. He does it with such clarity; I couldn't have said it better. This is well worth the read. It's excellent and puts it into a great perspective.
While the U.S. is struggling with its medical coverage today, it's wise to know that Kamehameha IV and Queen consort Emma instituted socialized medicine before any country in the world. Free medical coverage was given to those who couldn't afford medical treatment. This included sailors that jumped ship or were thrown off the ship without any sustenance. It was primarily for the aboriginal Hawai'ians but it was also extended to those who could ill-afford medical treatment. This is how the Queen's Hospital came about and it is Queen Emma's legacy to her people as she left her estate to keep it in operation.
Each Monarch left a legacy that no other monarch in the world had done for their people. It was the Haole Melika that diminished these trusts for self-enrichment. It shows the caliber of people we are dealing with when it comes to Hawai'i and its sovereignty.
Yes, the Palace was the most modern structure of convenience for its head of state even before the White house. The Palace had indoor plumbing, electricity, and a telephone to the King's boat house. It's nothing less for one to expect with a progressive, modern nation like the Kingdom of Hawai'i. U.S. Americans still regard us like their tribal native Americans as they promote their manifest destiny doctrines even to this day. So, we have a lot to be proud of in Hawai'i. The Akaka Bill with its Kau Inoa and OHA want to take all this away from us and create a tribal people instead of respecting us as subjects/nationals/citizens of the Kingdom of Hawai'i, an already recognized nation-state in the international arena of which we were very active in with relations to other countries.
Hawai'i was the first Non- white Christian country to be accepted within the Family of Nations and later Turkey was recognized as the first non-Christian nation-state to join the international arena. Hawai'i was also the first country to recognize the soverveign independence of Argentina as a nation-state. In 1854, Hawai'i declared its neutrality like that of Switzerland and reaffirmed it during the U.S. Civil War. It also entered into the Universal Postal compact and minted its own coinage. Hawai'i conducted itself like any other major nation in the world and secured relationships with them; the same way the U.S. has entered into the international arena. So, why do we need the U.S. to be paternalistic with us as superior to our status and standing within the world political arena?
Like that Judge says on TV Courtroom, " Don't tell me how to drive; I know how to drive, You stay on your side of the road and I'll stay on my side..."
Replies
Tane
While some people will engage in conversations and/or debates with these people though... I do not engage in debates with stupid people. Instead I ignore them but then everyone picks and choose their own battles and battling with stupid people is not on my list of "things to do before I die."
IMHO it is different for oiwi women: Kane rule the land... while wahine rule the uterus (which of course changed with Queen Lili'uokalani which some "men" no respect.)
To me oiwi women *have* to be more careful when it comes to engaging in conversations and/or debates with some "men." In this case these stupid "men" can do stupid things to us so some of us have to be careful.
Then again my perspective is one that I was personally injured by a stupid "man" so I know what a consequence can be (i.e. death.) (I was run over by a stupid man and almost died because of his stupidity. That's why I do not engage in convos with them. I would rather survive.)
IMHO for kane I think it is significantly different....
I didn't mean it in a mean or rude way, should not have been my usual vague self, and should have been more specific when I typed, "Instead I ignore them but then everyone picks and choose their own battles and battling with stupid people is not on my list of "things to do before I die." --- because I was close to death and I do not wish to be there again any time soon. It was due to stupid men so it was at a very early age when I learned what *men* are capable of doing.
But ae... I definitely agree with you that there are those lolo's out there. They are usually non-oiwi males *not oiwi males* who argue with oiwi about Hawaiian independence. In my experience too those Hawaiian men whom I know have always been able to handle themselves. They can "hold their own" so I mean no disrespect to da kane. For example I have two brothers (one older and one younger both --- Hilo Born.) They hold their own and respect oiwi women. Unfortunately not everyone is raised to respect oiwi women or *women* for that matter. With the way some of them address women... wow just wow. Aue more like it....
Physically too... I know that pound for pound I will never be able to squat or bench as much as an oiwi man or any man for that matter. So in person.. face to face... I know how *men* can be: They can be *ruthless* to oiwi women. And when it comes to the lolos who argue with oiwi about Hawaiian sovereignty, independence, etc... they are very ruthless to oiwi women.
Anyway mahalo for your mana'o too.
Long Live The Hawaiian Kingdom, o Pomaikaiokalani
Posted by Te Ngako-o-Te-Rangi - on September 25, 2009 at 2:00pm
Read his blog. It's things many of us have been stating and thinking. He does it with such clarity; I couldn't have said it better. This is well worth the read. It's excellent and puts it into a great perspective.
Tane
Each Monarch left a legacy that no other monarch in the world had done for their people. It was the Haole Melika that diminished these trusts for self-enrichment. It shows the caliber of people we are dealing with when it comes to Hawai'i and its sovereignty.
Yes, the Palace was the most modern structure of convenience for its head of state even before the White house. The Palace had indoor plumbing, electricity, and a telephone to the King's boat house. It's nothing less for one to expect with a progressive, modern nation like the Kingdom of Hawai'i. U.S. Americans still regard us like their tribal native Americans as they promote their manifest destiny doctrines even to this day. So, we have a lot to be proud of in Hawai'i. The Akaka Bill with its Kau Inoa and OHA want to take all this away from us and create a tribal people instead of respecting us as subjects/nationals/citizens of the Kingdom of Hawai'i, an already recognized nation-state in the international arena of which we were very active in with relations to other countries.
Hawai'i was the first Non- white Christian country to be accepted within the Family of Nations and later Turkey was recognized as the first non-Christian nation-state to join the international arena. Hawai'i was also the first country to recognize the soverveign independence of Argentina as a nation-state. In 1854, Hawai'i declared its neutrality like that of Switzerland and reaffirmed it during the U.S. Civil War. It also entered into the Universal Postal compact and minted its own coinage. Hawai'i conducted itself like any other major nation in the world and secured relationships with them; the same way the U.S. has entered into the international arena. So, why do we need the U.S. to be paternalistic with us as superior to our status and standing within the world political arena?
Like that Judge says on TV Courtroom, " Don't tell me how to drive; I know how to drive, You stay on your side of the road and I'll stay on my side..."
Tane
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